Alaska TA Passes- Joining UPS as first movers
10-20-2022, 05:29 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 304
True. The company creates the cost constraint by building their own pairing solution honoring the CBA worth rules and fatigue mitigation plan. As long as the ALPA solution cost is within 1% the ALPA solution will automatically be chosen, even if its more expensive. In the past, the ALPA pairings have been less fatiguing, more efficient, and ultimately cheaper, but the company still chose their own solution. Now the company doesn’t get that option.
10-20-2022, 05:50 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
Alaska isn't the only airline this is done. It is very successful at other properties as well. This isn't the bad man you're looking for.
10-20-2022, 05:53 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
Personally, I don’t want to apply virtual credit. Sounds like a “neat” way for management to keep underpaying vacation.
Presently in a non vacation month, I can fly a 7-day worth 40:30 and a 6-day worth 36:00 and be well inside the LCW at 76:30.
Vacation should pay and credit 5:15/day. Then I can take a week of vacation at 36:45, fly a 6-day around 31:30, and generate 68:15 of actual pay and credit. With two weeks vacation, I make 73:30 without working - less than I’d probably make actually working fourteen days of the month instead of vacationing 14 days of the month…but that’s how vacation should work. That would be “neat”.
Presently in a non vacation month, I can fly a 7-day worth 40:30 and a 6-day worth 36:00 and be well inside the LCW at 76:30.
Vacation should pay and credit 5:15/day. Then I can take a week of vacation at 36:45, fly a 6-day around 31:30, and generate 68:15 of actual pay and credit. With two weeks vacation, I make 73:30 without working - less than I’d probably make actually working fourteen days of the month instead of vacationing 14 days of the month…but that’s how vacation should work. That would be “neat”.
10-20-2022, 06:51 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
That isn't at all what it does. Virtual credit is incredibly important in the PBS formulas. Not everyone is driven by money. This allows pilots more time off during vacation months (the whole point, right?). If money is their objective, they can always pick up premium trips or straight time trips to boost their pay. The actual credit of the vacation is irrelevant in this conversation
Now, if you prefer shenanigans to try and make extra in vacation months (which is a lot like selling back vacation), that’s up to you. Personally, I don’t want provisions that reduce manning, degrade seniority and slow career progression.
10-20-2022, 07:03 AM
#75
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,807
The issue is you have to accept that amount of credit something most Alaska folks have never accepted. They’ve and myself included always lived on 80 plus a month now they’ve got this industry equivalent contract to what we have at Delta and whilst giving them more days off and a higher hourly rate really won’t give them anymore than they’re used to currently. We all love to say we want more time off but when we see the pay hit things change… that’s where their contract amongst many things fell short. Thankfully I don’t see Delta folks falling for such a lack luster TA.
Speak for yourself. Setting oneself up to live on 80+ a month is a foolish endeavor. The extra cash here and there is nice, but it only helps for the months I PD a bunch of stuff.
Seems to work out fairly well at other carriers where the union builds the trips.
10-20-2022, 07:40 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
Virtual credit is incredibly relevant to the conversation. The original post discussed an option to get an hour of credit/no pay to get the bidder closer to a complete schedule. I’m saying we should have 1:15 more of credit AND pay for every hour of vacation. When I’m taking seven days of vacation, I want to be paid like I worked seven days. That’s what paid vacation/time off looks like in any normal profession.
Now, if you prefer shenanigans to try and make extra in vacation months (which is a lot like selling back vacation), that’s up to you. Personally, I don’t want provisions that reduce manning, degrade seniority and slow career progression.
Now, if you prefer shenanigans to try and make extra in vacation months (which is a lot like selling back vacation), that’s up to you. Personally, I don’t want provisions that reduce manning, degrade seniority and slow career progression.
To your second point, red herring.
10-20-2022, 09:25 AM
#77
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: B200
Posts: 99
You'll join UPS in your dreams. And a lot of great pilots you passed on in the 2000's are sitting on a defined benefit plan at Brown and laughing at you.......they are laughing.
What a bunch of penny loafer wearing clowns.
Great job.
What a bunch of penny loafer wearing clowns.
Great job.
10-20-2022, 09:43 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
My main interest in a vacation change for us in OUR TA is 5:15 per day, every day, pay and credit.
10-20-2022, 09:47 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
CBreezy, I’m quoting myself for you to reread what I wrote, in this Delta thread, for Delta pilots. I’m happy Alaska pilots apparently like their deal. Sounds like they found a way to work a little less with a neat option for their shiny new PBS bidding.
My main interest in a vacation change for us in OUR TA is 5:15 per day, every day, pay and credit.
My main interest in a vacation change for us in OUR TA is 5:15 per day, every day, pay and credit.
And while I would prefer better value for vacation, I would also like more time off in a vacation month vs more pay. Technically, I would prefer conflict bidding vacation. But, increasing virtual credit does get you further down the line than current book. It is an improvement no matter how you slice it. It may not be the deal for us but it's not a bad deal as you make it seem.
10-20-2022, 09:48 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,731
in a system with 5:15 a day vacation, you’d get a complete month off with full pay by applying 2 weeks of vacation. Other industries do not get a full month off with full pay by taking two weeks of vacation.
that said, 5:15 a day sounds good to me and I hope we get it.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
