What Is Full Retro
10-03-2022, 12:21 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,316
Nobody needs to know the EXACT table positions in order to gauge the likelihood of a release.
Let’s just assume that the table position is in line with those hints.
Jan 2020 through August 2022 inflation is 15%
assume a nominal raise request above inflation of 5%
the retirement increase is approximately 9%
That would be a 29% increase on signing.
Does anyone really think that the board will look at that and decide to grant us an impasse anytime soon?
Let’s just assume that the table position is in line with those hints.
Jan 2020 through August 2022 inflation is 15%
assume a nominal raise request above inflation of 5%
the retirement increase is approximately 9%
That would be a 29% increase on signing.
Does anyone really think that the board will look at that and decide to grant us an impasse anytime soon?
10-03-2022, 12:47 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Every one of your posts raises the bar higher.
Management always comes through.
Hi hope you and JL keep saying DALPA misrepresents your positions.
I have never seen the pilots more unified and motivated.
Management’s credibility is less than 1%.
10-03-2022, 01:15 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 907
Have you paid attention at all to recent bonuses and raises for other pilots that do the same job we do? Any reasonable person would look at inflation, look at the massive raises of other pilot groups and look at the raises within our own employee group and come to the conclusion that 29% is a reasonable number. Really there is no other way to look at it. Maybe the full 29% is just out of reach but above 25% is definitely in reach. Have you even looked at the Alaska TA? People on here tempering expectations, weak. Really pathetic to think we can't get what other pilots have already gotten.
None of that matters to the NMB. All they care about is your peer airlines (AA, UAL, and to an extent SWA/UPS/FedEx) and the zone of reasonableness. A 30% raise is outside of that zone when you are currently essentially tied with your peers. For it to be reasonable one or two carriers need to get raises so you can leapfrog them. A ratified Alaska TA helps in that regard. A ratified ual or aa contract with a 15-20% raise would be better.
With how the industry stands now, the NMB is not going to help us. Which is probably why the company gave such a disappointing proposal.
10-03-2022, 01:55 PM
#54
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,876
I agree with you. There’s nothing unreasonable in the proposal I laid out. I can justify it, and more, in many different ways.
None of that matters to the NMB. All they care about is your peer airlines (AA, UAL, and to an extent SWA/UPS/FedEx) and the zone of reasonableness. A 30% raise is outside of that zone when you are currently essentially tied with your peers. For it to be reasonable one or two carriers need to get raises so you can leapfrog them. A ratified Alaska TA helps in that regard. A ratified ual or aa contract with a 15-20% raise would be better.
With how the industry stands now, the NMB is not going to help us. Which is probably why the company gave such a disappointing proposal.
None of that matters to the NMB. All they care about is your peer airlines (AA, UAL, and to an extent SWA/UPS/FedEx) and the zone of reasonableness. A 30% raise is outside of that zone when you are currently essentially tied with your peers. For it to be reasonable one or two carriers need to get raises so you can leapfrog them. A ratified Alaska TA helps in that regard. A ratified ual or aa contract with a 15-20% raise would be better.
With how the industry stands now, the NMB is not going to help us. Which is probably why the company gave such a disappointing proposal.
10-03-2022, 02:18 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,648
To some degree that's true, but also in my mind that's sort of a chicken vs egg thing. If we're all tied and no one can jump ahead of their peers then how does anyone get a raise? Someone has to be first and set the market. I also think it's reasonable to assume in these times that if we set a top rate of XXX/Hr, then we would quickly be matched or slightly exceeded by UA and AA, or they'd at least get much, much closer and we'd all be sort of in the same range again.
10-03-2022, 04:09 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,558
Nobody needs to know the EXACT table positions in order to gauge the likelihood of a release.
Let’s just assume that the table position is in line with those hints.
Jan 2020 through August 2022 inflation is 15%
assume a nominal raise request above inflation of 5%
the retirement increase is approximately 9%
That would be a 29% increase on signing.
Does anyone really think that the board will look at that and decide to grant us an impasse anytime soon?
Let’s just assume that the table position is in line with those hints.
Jan 2020 through August 2022 inflation is 15%
assume a nominal raise request above inflation of 5%
the retirement increase is approximately 9%
That would be a 29% increase on signing.
Does anyone really think that the board will look at that and decide to grant us an impasse anytime soon?
10-03-2022, 04:26 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 907
To some degree that's true, but also in my mind that's sort of a chicken vs egg thing. If we're all tied and no one can jump ahead of their peers then how does anyone get a raise? Someone has to be first and set the market. I also think it's reasonable to assume in these times that if we set a top rate of XXX/Hr, then we would quickly be matched or slightly exceeded by UA and AA, or they'd at least get much, much closer and we'd all be sort of in the same range again.
10-03-2022, 04:40 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 907
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight for it or expect it, but it’s a fight we will wage without their help.
10-03-2022, 05:31 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,316
Then you are advocating for us to sit on our hands and do nothing? We can't use the percentage gains of regionals because you said they aren't are peers (even though they do the same job we do). We can't use the United TA because there isn't one. We can use the Alaska TA but we can't use their percentage gains, we just have to use their rates? So we are all getting $5/hour raises at best? How is that going to work when it gets sent to the membership for ratification? Or we just wait for United and American (too bad we can't use UPS or FedEx even though they do the same job we do). Let's just all cross our fingers and hope American and United can raise the bar. Right now we are doing nothing except waiting for American and United to make incremental gains from which we can make incremental gains.
10-03-2022, 05:39 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,316
https://www.railwayage.com/regulator...rail-shutdown/
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