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Old 03-11-2024, 03:15 PM
  #2751  
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Originally Posted by Trip7
Is this hearsay or actual data behind it? I haven't seen any underperforming FOs on the line. Sure a little mentoring here or there but nobody where I feel I needed to contact Training and Standards
We have the data Trip. Had a 73 CA upgradee recently get 87 hours of OE. Circa 13k ish seniority level.

Numerous other training difficulties out there in both seats. BS gets a weekly status update on training and standards. It's all there and not like we used to see.
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:17 PM
  #2752  
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Originally Posted by Nick Bradshaw
I don't care if Delta stops hiring. Honestly, with the breakneck hiring of 5000 pilots since the scamdemic, and the amount of low qualified and underperforming FOs that Standards has been seeing, we need to slow down and get back behind our skis. We don't want to be United with a wreck on the news every week.
I have to wave the BS flag here, been flying w brand new guys on the ER in NYC for the past few years....sometimes two at a time doing crossings to Africa. These guys and gals have their stuff squared away., Amazingly, to be honest considering the "train yourself" iPad course.

Fly on the wall at standards, that's pretty funny. Maybe they should be a fly on the wall doing some line flying instead.

I will admit there is some fog between what they think and what I think but that's on ME not them, these people are from a different generation (mostly) I may not agree with or "approve" of some of their opinions...beliefs. So what, they are good pilots, we are passing the torch to them.

Never seen any "underperforming" flying abilities. Ever.
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:18 PM
  #2753  
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Originally Posted by PilotJ3
Is not about overwhelming with the engine start, is about giving them time to think everything.

Most of the Nh I’ve flown are previous military and need some part 121 training or extra time to get everything ready. Anyway the 320 keeps high N1 to keep AC flowing so starting 2 engines “saves” more fuel than just using 1.
Worse FOs I've flown with have been from one background. Riddle rats and Sky West. Hands down. The. Worse.
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:23 PM
  #2754  
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Originally Posted by 170Till5
March 10 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc anticipates that the deliveries of the Boeing 737 Max 10 aircraft to the airline could be delayed until as late as 2027, Bloomberg News reported on Sunday, citing an interview with the company CEO Ed Bastian.”

“Delta is "comfortable" with protections it negotiated against possible delays in its contract to buy the Max 10, Bastian said, declining to be more specific, according to the report.“

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...ys-2024-03-10/
I posted on here months ago we wouldn't see the MAX until late 2027 or 2028 and was excoriated.
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:27 PM
  #2755  
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Originally Posted by dbrownie
I have to wave the BS flag here, been flying w brand new guys on the ER in NYC for the past few years....sometimes two at a time doing crossings to Africa. These guys and gals have their stuff squared away., Amazingly, to be honest considering the "train yourself" iPad course.

Fly on the wall at standards, that's pretty funny. Maybe they should be a fly on the wall doing some line flying instead.

I will admit there is some fog between what they think and what I think but that's on ME not them, these people are from a different generation (mostly) I may not agree with or "approve" of some of their opinions...beliefs. So what, they are good pilots, we are passing the torch to them.

Never seen any "underperforming" flying abilities. Ever.
​​​​​​Your post is a contradiction. The reason you see decent FOs is directly correlated to the hard work put forth by our training and standards department.
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:30 PM
  #2756  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
You should have been a fly on the wall at a recent standards meeting!
Agreed. It was eye opening. As have been the last several of the past 18-24 months or so
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:33 PM
  #2757  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
​​​​​​Your post is a contradiction. The reason you see decent FOs is directly correlated to the hard work put forth by our training and standards department.
Well I am responding that we are having underperforming new pilots, I have not seen it as a line pilot.
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:36 PM
  #2758  
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Originally Posted by OOfff
have there been any clipped wing incidents with SET as a root cause? I’ve been here a while and haven’t heard of any
Well we had an AA 777 cross a runway with one of our jets taking off because the FO in the right seat was starting the 2nd engine, (albeit pretty easy on a 777, but you never flew it so you wouldn't know) and the relief on their cell phone.

We had a jet blue clip a united jet. We had another jet blue clip another jet blue on the J pad in BOS... I mean c'mon ooofff. It's out there and you know it

Just say no to SET unless you've got a very very very good reason. As such mentioned in this thread.
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:37 PM
  #2759  
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Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo
Worse FOs I've flown with have been from one background. Riddle rats and Sky West. Hands down. The. Worse.
You know...I kind of agree with this generalization as far as personality type. If I'm going to have an issue with a new hire's personality it's generally a riddle to skywest to delta person. But sometimes they're fine too. And as far as flying skills go they're usually fine too.

If guys are taking 87 hours of OE for upgrade then yeah, that's an issue and they should be sent back to the right seat. One person taking that time is an outlier right? I want to see the data. United is requiring 100 hrs of IOE for all of their sub 1 year and 500 hour captains!
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Old 03-11-2024, 03:39 PM
  #2760  
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Originally Posted by m3113n1a1
You know...I kind of agree with this generalization as far as personality type. If I'm going to have an issue with a new hire's personality it's generally a riddle to skywest to delta person. But sometimes they're fine too. And as far as flying skills go they're usually fine too.

If guys are taking 87 hours of OE for upgrade then yeah, that's an issue and they should be sent back to the right seat. One person taking that time is an outlier right? I want to see the data. United is requiring 100 hrs of IOE for all of their sub 1 year and 500 hour captains!
Become an LCA and you'll get to see the info. It would shock you.

The trend is not our friend right now. For all you newer captains out there and some older ones too. Please, we rely on you to maintain the standard. If things are not quite right, take the time to debrief them. Don't wait, do it after block in when it's fresh. That goes for both your mistakes and those of the FO. You guys know how to fly good jets. Set the example, maintain the standard and fly the jet the way Delta asks you to. We need not deviate and this will pay huge dividends for when those FOs eventually move to the left seat. Dont accept less, be a mentor, don't be a dick about it either. Be firm, be fair and be complementary as the situation requires
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