notEnuf

You are entitled to your opinion. When it comes to pilot cost numbers, pay, benefits and profit sharing I prefer facts.

Nick Bradshaw

This whole conversation of 787 vs 330/350 is nothing but mental masturbation. You all sound like a bunch of Riddle dorks. Who is your audience here? Management? Each other? Trying to win the internet and be the Smartest Man In The Room?

Pilots don't buy airplanes. Management doesn't care what pilots think and don't ask what we want to fly here (though I've heard ALPA and UAL have had those discussions). Delta management buys the cheapest jets they can find and makes them work. We're also the most profitable legacy, so they must be doing something right.

I say fly whatever they tell you to fly and let management make the financial decisions. What is it with pilots who think they could run an airline? That's never worked out.

Buck Rogers

Facts would be nice, but in lieu of spending considerable effort to try to extract the minutia, most people take a rough cut and see what the ballpark #'s are . Unless the exact number is published and broken out, are we to assume there are no pilot costs?

It's all you brother....you can argue with yourself from here on out on this one.

Peace Out

Buck Rogers

Nick, you take a lot of grief on APC.

But ..............you nailed this one.

Hotel Kilo

So what? I know they all pay the same. But our competition is moving to the 787s. It is a nicer experience for the pax. Go fly over to Asia on a 787. You'll feel totally different about it when you do - trust me. That experience can not be denied, you feel much better physically due to the capabilitites of the aircraft. So if we're charging premium for substandard, sooner or later that word gets out there. Especially the vloggers and travel bloggers. Like it or not, that is where the previous 2 generations are getting there info from. They will be the largest consumer cohort going forward for the next 40 years. How much longer will DAL be able to charge revenue premium when we leave people behind? IDK the answer to that. However it is clear what direction our competition is moving. As Sailing stated, the 330 is a washed up 40 year old design.

Tinpusher007

Im not assuming anything about AA, they don't fly to Asia from ORD. Period. That has more to do with their weak position there vs UA than a lack of suitable aircraft. You said your buddies at AA fly 78's from ORD. I'm saying they don't. I'm also agreeing with you that the 787-9, in particular is superior to the A339. BUT talking about UA who does fly 787s from ORD and just about everywhere else on some very long flights; compared to our A339, the 787 already has a higher MTOW by about 20k lbs AND as I said they carry 24 less pax and therefore 24 less pax bags. That's not at all insignificant. So it stands to reason that they never have payload issues on those routes. But I bet if you ask them about SFO-SIN or JNB/CPT-EWR they likely do have to sometimes leave pax or cargo. I don't know why me mentioning Etihad is "whatever" to you; as if that pilot's experience is somehow invalid. The point is the 787 is just like any other plane; if pushed to its limits it will take performance hits just like any other. It just so happens that the A339 takes those hits more often because it's capabilities are less than a 787; that we can agree on.

Tinpusher007

It's a discussion...about airplane performance...on an airline pilot forum. Riddle dorks. Yes I am; class of '01. Who would have guessed, right? If this topic is so beneath you why comment? They buy them with their primary concern being money because that's what execs do. We operate them with our concern being their performance because that's what pilots do. Heaven forbid we talk about it on an Internet forum designed specifically for that purpose.

Buck Rogers

FIFY...........

BTW....as has been shown, published performance numbers are meaningless. Best performing plane at Delta is/was the 757

Rinaldi

Lighten up Francis.

No one here expects this discussion will have any impact on what Delta does with aircraft purchases. The audience is other pilots. We like to talk about airplanes.

Tinpusher007

So, you DO have an opinion on aircraft performance...odd.