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10-24-2023, 05:17 PM

#1361

FangsF15

Moderator

Joined APC: Sep 2011

Posts: 4,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad

The bad lady actually scared them, it’s their coping mechanism.

I totally understand being frustrated by how it went down. I do not understand pretending things happened when they did not.

10-24-2023, 05:22 PM

#1362

Whoopsmybad

Can’t find crew pickup

Joined APC: Jun 2021

Posts: 2,231

Quote:

Originally Posted by FangsF15

I totally understand being frustrated by how it went down. I do not understand pretending things happened when they did not.

Exactly. The next step is to not stand unified DEMANDING compliance.

10-25-2023, 05:01 AM

#1363

Roper92

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2006

Position: Maddog FO

Posts: 653

Quote:

Originally Posted by First Break

The revisionist nonsense about the 7ER is just that. I don’t remember a single post, comm from the union, or widespread outcry about raising the 7ER pay rates until the “hey, how dare others get a better deal than me” crowd woke up from their minimum balance fantasy AFTER the agreement was made. ALPA made no secret that they were aiming to fix the 320/764/330 pay rates in this agreement and mentioned it several times in various negotiating updates. The 7ER was never mentioned, nor was there outcry resulting from such.

Those who will never be happy will always find things to try and justify their misery. So it goes.

I’m not sure who all you are barking at, but I was just simply stating that it’s puzzling that the 767-300 widebody international jet is paid at narrowbody rates. No misery for me as I’m not even on the fleet. I do feel bad for the ones flying it to Europe, SA & Asia at a steep discount. Like was said before, it’ll be gone soon so it won’t even matter. And yes, no union comms regarding the payrate during this past negotiating period because it’s a dying fleet.

10-25-2023, 05:05 AM

#1364

crewdawg

Moderator

Joined APC: Jul 2006

Posts: 5,806

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roper92

And yes, no union comms regarding the payrate during this past negotiating period because it’s a dying fleet.

On a similar note, based on how the 717 was left out to dry in the last PWA, it makes me wonder if the 717 is going away sooner than the rumors.

10-25-2023, 05:09 AM

#1365

Gone Flying

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2015

Position: UNA

Posts: 4,629

Quote:

Originally Posted by crewdawg

On a similar note, based on how the 717 was left out to dry in the last PWA, it makes me wonder if the 717 is going away sooner than the rumors.

How was the 717 left our any more than the 220-100 or 737 or a321 ect.?

Out of 946 current aircraft, 222 were subject to banding up…less than 25%. Most of those (147) were just moving how we paid our fleet to align with how AA and UA paid theirs. Can we give the “left out to dry” describing 76% of our fleet a rest.

10-25-2023, 05:17 AM

#1366

iaflyer

seeing the large hubs...

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: 73N A

Posts: 3,745

Quote:

Originally Posted by crewdawg

On a similar note, based on how the 717 was left out to dry in the last PWA, it makes me wonder if the 717 is going away sooner than the rumors.

So was the 737, it just got the base 18% (20 with UAL) raise. But it's not going anywhere and we keep buying more.

10-25-2023, 05:17 AM

#1367

crewdawg

Moderator

Joined APC: Jul 2006

Posts: 5,806

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gone Flying

How was the 717 left our any more than the 220-100 or 737?

banding effected less than half the fleet, it’s not like only one or 2 aircraft were left out.

Because I'm not just talking banding and yes the 220 is the same. Being left out of the 1 and 2 day rotation construction protections is another one. But on the banding front, at the very least, we should have been banded with the 717 to the A221-100. Banding the 73N/320 just made sense.

10-25-2023, 05:28 AM

#1368

Gone Flying

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2015

Position: UNA

Posts: 4,629

Quote:

Originally Posted by crewdawg

I don’t disagree on banding the 717and 221, but there are plenty of things that should be but are not. There was industry precedent for almost all the banding we did, but given we are the only carrier that flies a 717 size plane that is less of an easy grab.

being left out of the rotation construction rules bites if you are on it, and hopefully that is something we can continue to improve in the next CBA

10-25-2023, 05:58 AM

#1369

sailingfun

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2008

Posts: 19,588

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gone Flying

In the late nineties with new aircraft technology efficiency of the various aircraft options increased substantially. As a union we made a case and succeeded in getting higher rates for more efficient aircraft. We publicly stated we should share in the gains those aircraft provided. Now we want to go back and try and make a case that those less efficient aircraft should have their rates banded up. What if the company came back and said that since we no longer feel we should share in the efficiency of the airframes they should be banded back down to the older airframes?

10-25-2023, 06:05 AM

#1370

FangsF15

Moderator

Joined APC: Sep 2011

Posts: 4,802

Quote:

Originally Posted by crewdawg

Because I'm not just talking banding and yes the 220 is the same. Being left out of the 1 and 2 day rotation construction protections is another one. But on the banding front, at the very least, we should have been banded with the 717 to the A221-100. Banding the 73N/320 just made sense.

FWIW, in the Engage Podcasts, the Negotiators discussed this, and why the 717 was "left out" of the rotation construction improvements. They had access to "Carmen", the optimizer program, and found that those parameters actually made rotation construction worse, and also in categories that were small. So they were intentionally left out, so as not to screw them over even worse. I don't recall any details as to how it was worse, but I trust those fella's knew their stuff.