A350-1000 and other Fleet News
10-23-2023, 10:40 AM
#1331
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,454
What’s the difference between mediation and arbitration? In a mediation process, a neutral, trained mediator works to help disputants come to a consensus on their own. In arbitration, a neutral, trained arbitrator serves as a judge who is responsible for resolving the dispute.
Mediation is appealing because it allows parties to reach a collaborative settlement, but it could end in impasse. Arbitration, on the other hand, can wrap up a dispute conclusively, but it doesn’t give disputants much say in the outcome.
https://www.pon.harvard.edu/tag/medi...d-arbitration/
Last edited by notEnuf; 10-23-2023 at 11:09 AM.
10-23-2023, 11:00 AM
#1332
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,802
Point of order... I define them by their how they affect actual results. Not what they title their position.
What’s the difference between mediation and arbitration? In a mediation process, a neutral, trained mediator works to help disputants come to a consensus on their own. In arbitration, a neutral, trained arbitrator serves as a judge who is responsible for resolving the dispute.
Mediation is appealing because it allows parties to reach a collaborative settlement, but it could end in impasse. Arbitration, on the other hand, can wrap up a dispute conclusively, but it doesn’t give disputants much say in the outcome.
https://www.pon.harvard.edu/tag/medi...d-arbitration/
What’s the difference between mediation and arbitration? In a mediation process, a neutral, trained mediator works to help disputants come to a consensus on their own. In arbitration, a neutral, trained arbitrator serves as a judge who is responsible for resolving the dispute.
Mediation is appealing because it allows parties to reach a collaborative settlement, but it could end in impasse. Arbitration, on the other hand, can wrap up a dispute conclusively, but it doesn’t give disputants much say in the outcome.
https://www.pon.harvard.edu/tag/medi...d-arbitration/
While I wish the MEC had said “no” in RDU, and fought harder, once that milk was spilt, we made the right (really the only reasonable) choices.
10-23-2023, 11:12 AM
#1333
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,454
An ultimatum of take the company proposal as is without negotiation, or else... is not a choice. I'm fine operating under our current PWA and have/will adapt accordingly, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking this was anything but an arbitrated deal. "This is the deal" NOT "negotiations will continue until we have consensus."
10-23-2023, 11:32 AM
#1334
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,629
An ultimatum of take the company proposal as is without negotiation, or else... is not a choice. I'm fine operating under our current PWA and have/will adapt accordingly, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking this was anything but an arbitrated deal. "This is the deal" NOT "negotiations will continue until we have consensus."
referring to our mediation process as arbitration cheapens the very real effect of arbitration is having on pilots in our industry today.
10-23-2023, 12:08 PM
#1336
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,454
it absolutely was a choice. What happened to atlas was arbitration. The company pretty much got their way on almost everything. It was imposed on them without their vote. Our MEC voted on the AIP, then again on the TA, then we got to vote on the TA language as a group.
referring to our mediation process as arbitration cheapens the very real effect of arbitration is having on pilots in our industry today.
referring to our mediation process as arbitration cheapens the very real effect of arbitration is having on pilots in our industry today.
10-23-2023, 12:18 PM
#1337
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
Scoop
10-23-2023, 12:27 PM
#1338
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,454
I respectfully disagree. That might be true if there were not numerous iterations before that point. You may not like the results, but there was plenty of negotiating prior to that point - months worth with numerous PWA sections already closed. Additionally if we rejected that, we could have been kneecapped by a lame UAL or AAL deal.
Scoop
Scoop
10-23-2023, 12:27 PM
#1339
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,613
I seem to recall a long period of drafting the contract language after the deal was made. Are we displaying outrage over the deal or are we enraged because the language that was crafted fell short of capturing the essence of the deal?
My friends who are attorneys tell me contracts are intentionally left vague to ensure future business. It's like planned obsolescence in tech products.
My friends who are attorneys tell me contracts are intentionally left vague to ensure future business. It's like planned obsolescence in tech products.
10-23-2023, 05:12 PM
#1340
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
2/3rds of the language negotiated and 1/4 of the dollar value negotiated prior to forced acceptance is not a negotiated settlement. The process was cut short by the (insert descriptor here) by an ultimatum. Whether we would have done better or worse, or a precedent by another negotiation is beside the point. Our deal as it is, was not negotiated by the parties to a mutual agreement. The hindsight evidence of knowing management had intensions to contest their own supposal and unilaterally impose terms should make you realize this was a deliberate act aided by the...
