Whoopsmybad

Then you get into the argument from commuters that locals have to be at the airport anywhere 45 minutes - 2 hours prior now. Because traffic/wrecks/storms/got pulled over/crew bus late. Then watch heads explode.

I’ve waited on more locals than commuters.

fishforfun

Bingo….filler.

DALFA

Not at all. When you drive to the airport you're using your own transportation. If you're taking advantage of positive space flying to get yourself to your base then you're relying on the company to get you there. That's a stark difference.

Does your regular commuting policy require you to have a back-up flight?

Gone Flying

not really, if I rely on a bus or metro to get to work that’s just as reliant on another company. Shouldn’t our own company be more reliable than a random city bus?

yes, and our regular commuter policy is one of the most onerous in the industry. If we cannot secure PS I do hope we can change this policy.

DALFA

So you don't think there should be any accountability for someone who makes the choice to fly in on the last possible flight before their report time? Everyone is always talking about holding management responsible but shouldn't we as employees also face scrutiny?

notEnuf

Just commute in the night before and use a company layover hotel. Then when you don't get any sleep call in fatigued for your 4 day, go home and get proper rest and join the trip later. Duh. Not calling in fatigued before your trip is a choice.

fishforfun

You should be held accountable for not following the commuter policy in the FOM, PWA or LOA. Nothing more, nothing less. If I follow the commuter policy and delta cancels or delays my commute, who should be held accountable?

If I’m driving to work from PA or CT (captains favorite it appears) and get stuck in traffic who is accountable?

higney85

As a commuter I love the PSC. I’m senior enough to get my commutable schedule, book my commutes and rest easy. No more alarms to list for a JS on days off or have the concern on “go home day” of getting a seat if I miss my listed JS. So much so that I do Amex for the sky club and use it coming home. Normally, booking gives me options to have a super tight sign in time or an extra hour or 2, personally- I’m conservative. Going to work I give myself time for delays or just take the flight an hour or two earlier. Going home, if there is a tight option I’ll list for the JS with a flight an hour or 2 later and not stress. If I know I won’t make the JS, I’ll cancel. If I can make ir there are many times where I can actually snag a seat via PSC (albeit in a middle seat, but no complaints) and cancel my later flight. Going to work I can normally get a window seat (since I’m booking 2-6 weeks in advance) and can nap to work. Finishing a trip, I can grab a bite to eat in the sky club and a nap home. My wife and kids see the difference after a long day where I come home and have had time to unwind a little and a nap on the way home (50ish minute flight time on my commute). In 4 years at DL under the precious commuting policy I had a CIH 1 time. First flight cancelled after already at the airport and checked in (I had the JS) and next flight was super oversold. Scheduling got me to work. In the last 2ish years with PSC there has only been 1 time with an issue (3 hour delay posted when I got to the airport to commute) and scheduling delayed the flight waiting for me. Ended up about 30 late to push and less than 15 late on the first arrival of my trip. The hardest part of my job is the commute. Yes, commuting is a choice. We were going to move to ATL and were actually under contract on a home in PTC (delta base housing) but I realized it was for only my benefit and would hurt the family and aborted the decision. In the next contract the PSC is a massive QOL issue, BUT I’m not willing to pass on a good contract for it. With the current trips I have no doubt fatigue calls, on a personal level, would have occurred had I needed 2 flights and flight 1 was sitting on a JS vs 1-2 more hours of time in my own bed and the nap on the way to ATL before a 10, becoming 12 hour duty day. For the record, if I’m fatigued, I’ll call in as such, but only needed to 1 time where a reroute took a day that was supposed to end at roughly 9PM turned into a 3am arrival with mx ferry reroute and that was under the old rules. Can’t compare the apples and oranges on where that would land today. In the end PSC is huge. On the company end, PSC reduces sick calls due to blown 1-shot short notice commutes (not judging, but it was real) and has many folks taking very junior CA seats and/or staying in places like NYC when only 1 flight is needed instead of bidding into a senior base for frequency. That was told to me flying by a high up CPO fellow. Lots of money saved in training and payroll there. There are also different commute parameters and I can attest to taking multiple GS’s with only 1 shot to work that I would previously not bothered with if 2 flights were required. The bigger issue seems to be the fact that others get a “me too” on the PSC so it’s not just pilots. That makes the negotiation a bigger lift for pilots (although we should only be negotiating for ourselves). The concern is we now have over 25% of the actual DL pilots AND FA’s who have never NOT had PSC. It’s not uncommon on my commute to see 10 crew members on PSC, if that goes away it’s now a fight for 1-2 JS’s in the flight deck and cabin. Interesting times, we will see what prevails. If the shortage continues the companies will use it as a big token for hiring and attrition. Just my $.02

TLDR- PSC helps both sides.

DALFA

1. If Delta cancels or delays your flight and you have your 1 back-up flight and you still miss your trip then the absence doesn't count against you. But if you make the choice to get on the last possible flight then it's reasonable to hold that individual accountable.
2. If you drive to work and give yourself zero buffer and you're late then you should be held accountable.

I get it that we want to spend as little time at work as possible and as much time at home as possible but we also need to accept some accountability if we make poor choices...like leaving at the latest possible minute.

higney85

So if you know you are going to end at say midnight (scheduled) with a say 3pm sign in… do you take the 1 shot pos space scheduled to land at 13:30 (1.5 hour buffer, knowing there isn’t a hurricane or other massive system interruption) or take the flight that gets in at 9:30am for 2 flights? With the “schedule adjustments” that’s the reality in some cities. To make the flight that gets in at 9:30 and leaves at 7:15 central that’s a 4:30 wake-up vs a “sleep in for a late night” 8am wake-up… and then delays that has you landing at 1am or later. Which option sounds safer or less prone to a fatigue call? A nap in a crew room doesn’t count nearly enough to the body as getting another 3.5 hours of real sleep. This situation is real, and yes commuting is a choice. Pulling our random turns mid day to “make the schedule work” has down line impacts.