Originally Posted by notEnuf

Even if there is valid data a comparison can not be made. If PSC was a thing prior to covid, and during covid, you could compare or if there was no PSC during covid you could compare the time periods. The is no control in the experiment, it's apples and oranges. They will state and argue to points that support their position. The fact that they are coloring it as a net negative makes me think it's not and they want to exploit it in negotiations.

edit: by they, I mean management or not management lifetime commuters who have intimate knowledge of all data on all subjects posted on APC and don't work on the 4th floor but keep hearing from friends that... but are definitely not management, nor have they ever been.

Originally Posted by Vsop

I know paying for PS is not popular, but I think I found something I’m willing to sell to get it.
I am willing to allow the company to PROFER in seniority order a PS commuter the jumpseat if the flight is in an oversold situation. If the commuting pilot takes a jumpseat, they shall receive money/pay no credit. Let’s say $500 for DALFA .

That way the company doesn’t have to pay $10,000 to a passenger. Win/win

Originally Posted by DeltaboundRedux

Heck, why not offer pilots an opportunity to purchase the ACTUAL bare bones fare price tickets TO work for a 3 day window after the next month bid results are out?

Soften the sting to the company for missed revenue, pilots can gamble with the jumpseat or the call-in-honest policy if they're trying to save a few bucks. Commuting=choice/yadda-yadda.

While you're at it, you can offer that "deal" to the flight attendants as well.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Not a bit as the pilots would have all been PS in the same flights anyway. They are smart enough to look at other variables in the commuting equation.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

I am not against positive space. As a lifelong commuter I love it. I just find some of the arguments inane like someone posting having less seats to sell made the company more money. Even the fatigue arguments are hollow. I always found getting in to the airport early and grabbing a nice nap was as rested as I could be. The most fatigued commuters I see do stupid things like getting up at 3 or 4 am to avoid commuting in the night before. PS encourages pilots to do just that. You even see pilots flying all nighters in from the west coast. Before for early departures you came in the night before and got a full nights sleep. It’s interesting with 3 and 4 man crews how pilots often coming from the same places or proximate locations make vastly different decisions on how to commute. Live in FL with a 6PM report and severe afternoon thunderstorms forecast? One guy catches a 10am flight and grabs a day room or naps in the quiet room. Another takes the 3 PM flight, gets a 3 hour delay for ATC with the storms. This delays the departure several hours. This Results in a far more fatigued crew leaving and arriving late. It also makes for a ****ed off copilot when they both commute out of Tampa or Orlando. I get that some of you feel it’s the companies obligation to get you to work regardless of where you want to live and you have a god given right to show up 10 minutes before report and zero obligation to consider weather or other factors. Fortunately those types are a small minority.

Originally Posted by DALFA

There is some validity to what you pointed out and we've actually seen it on our side as well. People booking PS flights into base with 45 minutes to spare before report time. Wouldn't requiring a backup flight alleviate some of the issues you just pointed out? Or requiring that the flight you're booked on arrive at least 2 hours before your report time?

Originally Posted by FangsF15

It is totally disingenuous for management to say it’s not improved reliability in the upside-down world of the last two years, with cancelled flights galore, dramatically reduced flight schedules, and no rules on when people have to commute in/have a backup.

It’s apples and moon rocks comparison. I’m inclined to agree they “doth protest a little too much”. They just want us to give something up for it.

Originally Posted by ancman

I don’t think it’s possible to create a one-size-fits-all policy that effectively addresses this. 45 minutes prior to report time may be perfectly reasonable in some situations. In other situations, 2 hours prior to report time may not be enough.

Originally Posted by FangsF15

It is totally disingenuous for management to say it’s not improved reliability in the upside-down world of the last two years, with cancelled flights galore, dramatically reduced flight schedules, and no rules on when people have to commute in/have a backup.

It’s apples and moon rocks comparison. I’m inclined to agree they “doth protest a little too much”. They just want us to give something up for it.