Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2
06-26-2022, 01:39 PM
#721
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Position: Enoch Powell Enthusiast
Posts: 2,280
Pre Part 117, the duty/rest time rules were tricky, but manageable.
Post Part 117, when it gets debatable, confusing, or insanely complicated, the best option is just to call in fatigued and be done with it.
(Yeah yeah, "dual responsibility" and "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Except in English Common Law, it traditionally is. "Mens Rea")
Post Part 117, when it gets debatable, confusing, or insanely complicated, the best option is just to call in fatigued and be done with it.
(Yeah yeah, "dual responsibility" and "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Except in English Common Law, it traditionally is. "Mens Rea")
06-26-2022, 01:39 PM
#722
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Drivin’ the bus
Posts: 728
Not sure what you are saying regards to “this is not the case?”
Your statement is true, they don’t qualify as rest. But deadheading is also one of these things. Deadheading only is not considered part of an FDP. (Unless followed by a live leg in the same duty period.)
06-26-2022, 01:49 PM
#723
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 860
Not sure what you are saying regards to “this is not the case?”
Your statement is true, they don’t qualify as rest. But deadheading is also one of these things. Deadheading only is not considered part of an FDP. (Unless followed by a live leg in the same duty period.)
Your statement is true, they don’t qualify as rest. But deadheading is also one of these things. Deadheading only is not considered part of an FDP. (Unless followed by a live leg in the same duty period.)
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06-26-2022, 02:06 PM
#724
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,149
06-26-2022, 02:57 PM
#725
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 337
Easy way to think about it, for me at least, is without a 30 hour layover or break between trips somewhere, you can fly 7 days in a row, but day 7 must start 6:00 hours before your day 1 trip started, adjusted to your day 1 timezone.
Example: Noon sign in day 1 in ATL, day 7 must start at or before 6am ATL time. 600am SAV report on day 7 would be legal, but a 601am SAV report would not be. If you had a BNA layover on night 6, you would have to report before 5am (6am Atlanta time), DEN before 4am, LAX before 3am etc. All the times are based on when you started on day 1.
If you did get a 30 hour layover, or had a trip that ended early enough in the day that you could start a trip the following day 30 hours later, you could theoretically work every single day of the month if you hit no other rest, FDP, or block limits. Could even work multiple times on days throughout the month as well if you would get 10 hours between trips finishing in the morning and starting again that evening. Gotta love FAR 117.
You only need the 30 hour look back before 2 types of duty. An FDP, and a reserve availability period. FDP is a day with scheduled flying, and RAP is a short call duty period. All other duty can be done without the 30/168 look back. Long call reserve, training, deadhead only duty days, union work, etc don't require the 30/168 lookback.
Example: Noon sign in day 1 in ATL, day 7 must start at or before 6am ATL time. 600am SAV report on day 7 would be legal, but a 601am SAV report would not be. If you had a BNA layover on night 6, you would have to report before 5am (6am Atlanta time), DEN before 4am, LAX before 3am etc. All the times are based on when you started on day 1.
If you did get a 30 hour layover, or had a trip that ended early enough in the day that you could start a trip the following day 30 hours later, you could theoretically work every single day of the month if you hit no other rest, FDP, or block limits. Could even work multiple times on days throughout the month as well if you would get 10 hours between trips finishing in the morning and starting again that evening. Gotta love FAR 117.
You only need the 30 hour look back before 2 types of duty. An FDP, and a reserve availability period. FDP is a day with scheduled flying, and RAP is a short call duty period. All other duty can be done without the 30/168 look back. Long call reserve, training, deadhead only duty days, union work, etc don't require the 30/168 lookback.
06-26-2022, 03:34 PM
#726
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 235
Easy mode: The time you start the 30 hours rest is the deadline for your FDP start a week later.
If you begin 30 hours of rest on Saturday at 6am, your FDP on the next Saturday must start before 6am. Otherwise there won’t be 30 whole hours within the 168 at the commencement of the FDP.
Had this happen recently. Went from 5 days of reserve at the end of the bid period into a 4 day trip as regular the next bid period. That made 9 in a row. After a 1 day reserve trip, they put me on 30 hours rest starting at 0000 day 2. Well, that still didn’t make me legal for the last day of the 4 day (day 9) because I’d have to start my FDP by 0000. So it was either another 30 hours or cut the 4 day short.
30 hours applies to starting an FDP or RAP. You can sit long call for a year straight, just can’t launch into an FDP. You’d have to be deadheaded to a 30hr+ layover like someone already mentioned.
Also worth noting that rest is prospective. Meaning you know about it before it happens. If you start a 15 hour layover and it turns into a 32 hour layover, that doesn’t qualify as 30 hours rest.
Lastly, if you are ending 30 hours rest and going back into long call, the “1500” rule applies but based on your new start times. 30+12 is when you’d normally be eligible for a trip (so you really have 42 hours off, nice). However, they can use you 10 hours after the 30 as long as it’s on your schedule at least 9 hours before the end of the 30. This starts to get hard to keep track of. In my example of starting 30hrs at 0000, it would end at 0600 the next day. So I’d normally be eligible for a trip NET 1800, or as early as 1600 if it was on my schedule by 2100 the day prior.
So fun.
If you begin 30 hours of rest on Saturday at 6am, your FDP on the next Saturday must start before 6am. Otherwise there won’t be 30 whole hours within the 168 at the commencement of the FDP.
Had this happen recently. Went from 5 days of reserve at the end of the bid period into a 4 day trip as regular the next bid period. That made 9 in a row. After a 1 day reserve trip, they put me on 30 hours rest starting at 0000 day 2. Well, that still didn’t make me legal for the last day of the 4 day (day 9) because I’d have to start my FDP by 0000. So it was either another 30 hours or cut the 4 day short.
30 hours applies to starting an FDP or RAP. You can sit long call for a year straight, just can’t launch into an FDP. You’d have to be deadheaded to a 30hr+ layover like someone already mentioned.
Also worth noting that rest is prospective. Meaning you know about it before it happens. If you start a 15 hour layover and it turns into a 32 hour layover, that doesn’t qualify as 30 hours rest.
Lastly, if you are ending 30 hours rest and going back into long call, the “1500” rule applies but based on your new start times. 30+12 is when you’d normally be eligible for a trip (so you really have 42 hours off, nice). However, they can use you 10 hours after the 30 as long as it’s on your schedule at least 9 hours before the end of the 30. This starts to get hard to keep track of. In my example of starting 30hrs at 0000, it would end at 0600 the next day. So I’d normally be eligible for a trip NET 1800, or as early as 1600 if it was on my schedule by 2100 the day prior.
So fun.
06-26-2022, 04:01 PM
#727
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 2,231
Easy mode: The time you start the 30 hours rest is the deadline for your FDP start a week later.
If you begin 30 hours of rest on Saturday at 6am, your FDP on the next Saturday must start before 6am. Otherwise there won’t be 30 whole hours within the 168 at the commencement of the FDP.
Had this happen recently. Went from 5 days of reserve at the end of the bid period into a 4 day trip as regular the next bid period. That made 9 in a row. After a 1 day reserve trip, they put me on 30 hours rest starting at 0000 day 2. Well, that still didn’t make me legal for the last day of the 4 day (day 9) because I’d have to start my FDP by 0000. So it was either another 30 hours or cut the 4 day short.
30 hours applies to starting an FDP or RAP. You can sit long call for a year straight, just can’t launch into an FDP. You’d have to be deadheaded to a 30hr+ layover like someone already mentioned.
Also worth noting that rest is prospective. Meaning you know about it before it happens. If you start a 15 hour layover and it turns into a 32 hour layover, that doesn’t qualify as 30 hours rest.
Lastly, if you are ending 30 hours rest and going back into long call, the “1500” rule applies but based on your new start times. 30+12 is when you’d normally be eligible for a trip (so you really have 42 hours off, nice). However, they can use you 10 hours after the 30 as long as it’s on your schedule at least 9 hours before the end of the 30. This starts to get hard to keep track of. In my example of starting 30hrs at 0000, it would end at 0600 the next day. So I’d normally be eligible for a trip NET 1800, or as early as 1600 if it was on my schedule by 2100 the day prior.
So fun.
If you begin 30 hours of rest on Saturday at 6am, your FDP on the next Saturday must start before 6am. Otherwise there won’t be 30 whole hours within the 168 at the commencement of the FDP.
Had this happen recently. Went from 5 days of reserve at the end of the bid period into a 4 day trip as regular the next bid period. That made 9 in a row. After a 1 day reserve trip, they put me on 30 hours rest starting at 0000 day 2. Well, that still didn’t make me legal for the last day of the 4 day (day 9) because I’d have to start my FDP by 0000. So it was either another 30 hours or cut the 4 day short.
30 hours applies to starting an FDP or RAP. You can sit long call for a year straight, just can’t launch into an FDP. You’d have to be deadheaded to a 30hr+ layover like someone already mentioned.
Also worth noting that rest is prospective. Meaning you know about it before it happens. If you start a 15 hour layover and it turns into a 32 hour layover, that doesn’t qualify as 30 hours rest.
Lastly, if you are ending 30 hours rest and going back into long call, the “1500” rule applies but based on your new start times. 30+12 is when you’d normally be eligible for a trip (so you really have 42 hours off, nice). However, they can use you 10 hours after the 30 as long as it’s on your schedule at least 9 hours before the end of the 30. This starts to get hard to keep track of. In my example of starting 30hrs at 0000, it would end at 0600 the next day. So I’d normally be eligible for a trip NET 1800, or as early as 1600 if it was on my schedule by 2100 the day prior.
So fun.
06-26-2022, 05:49 PM
#728
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 235
This is knowledge required for survival during these times. Guess who caught the aforementioned 30/168 violation… Well, the rules auditor technically but me, I’m taking credit.
06-26-2022, 06:29 PM
#729
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,378
There’s an app for that…
Made by a DL line pilot
https://oaa.app.link/launch-app-1b31...7-d7f55cd2a3eb
https://oaa.app.link/launch-app-1b31...7-d7f55cd2a3eb
06-27-2022, 06:07 AM
#730
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
Made by a DL line pilot
https://oaa.app.link/launch-app-1b31...7-d7f55cd2a3eb
https://oaa.app.link/launch-app-1b31...7-d7f55cd2a3eb
Excellent! I am currently working on an APP that tells you when there is an APP for that. I will call it "That APP" One APP to rule them all. Basically an APP to alert you about other APPs . Im not really working on this but someone should do it - pure genius. Almost as smart as a factory that makes miniature factories.
Name the movie.Scoop
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