Viper25

What would have been managements motivation to deny pilots the cockpit jumpseat? I just can’t wrap my head around that.

crewdawg

Spite? Equity (other groups cant use it)? This is the way we've always done it? Take your pick, they're all terrible reasons.

tennisguru

Someone once said because it was a benefit available only to the pilots and not to other employee groups? Plus I’m sure there was a healthy dose of disdain towards pilots in general as well.

ancman

Those are practically the three guiding principles behind almost every decision made by Flight Ops management.

Timbo

You have to jump into the Way Back machine and travel back to about 1924 to find the true answer. I'll summarize it by saying, "Delta is a Family". That was their shtick in the early years. And being a Family meant that everyone was "Equal" in benefits, like vacation, sick leave, retirement, travel benefits pay raises, etc. If one group got it, everyone got it!

Fast fwd to September 1985. At my new hire class meeting when the Vice President of DL came to do a Q+A with us someone asked him why no jumpseat? VP Hollis Harris said, "We try to treat everyone equally here at Delta, and you guys already make a whole bunch more money than anyone else, giving you an additional travel perk not available to all the other employees just wouldn't be right."

Funny he didn't mention the B Scale that only the pilots got!

Now at that time Delta had lots more bases and lots fewer pilots. My first seniority number was 3879. The bases were, ATL, DFW, IAH, MSY, MIA and BOS so other than to fly international on an L1011 out of ATL or DFW to bump up your FAE towards your 60% DB retirement, there was no reason to commute, as we had bases spread across the eastern half of the country. I was first based in MIA but flew with the NH ANG out of PSM so I had to commute MIA-BOS a couple times a month, usually on Eastern, US Air or Piedmont.

There were many times I was refused the JS because I was Delta. The guys who did let me ride spent the whole leg disparaging the Delta pilots for not having a reciprocal JS. I told them I was a new hire and I fully agreed! After a year of that crap I bid up to BOS.

Fast forward to 1993, economic downturn, Delta furloughed for the first time ever and is losing millions per day, contract negotiations going on ad MoRon wants a 5% pay cut and many other concessions. To drive the point home he sold off the DC9s (Value Jet bought them!) and threatened to sell off the 737-200s unless we agree to operate them at a much reduced pay rate ($110/hr Captain) out of MCO as "Express" (originally called Sunshine) and to save money he closed BOS, MIA, ORD, IAH and MSY.

That contract (1996) was the first time we got to vote on it, prior to that we didn't even have membership ratification! This one was going to be so bad the MEC voted to send it to the pilots. I was stunned that it passed, it was so concessionary!

At that time if your base was closed you qualified for a company paid move, the cost of which averaged $25k per pilot, in 1996 dollars. DALPA talked him into letting us use the jumpseat to commute and showed him it would save Delta millions in unpaid moving benefits. I took my paid move, from NH to FL, fk you very much Mo'Ron! And it cost them closer to $50k for my move, and I've been commuting to ATL ever since, on Delta jumpseats usually.

Now....because what ever the pilots get, the FAs get too, like crew meals and profit sharing, the FAs were also given use of the jumpseat, even though many of their bases were NOT closed! We still have a FA base in BOS and MIA!

HelloNewnan

This is a true statement. I remember an old timer telling me that the MEC or LEC surveyed the pilots back in the day...maybe 1990 or so, and a healthy number rolled out the "wasn't professional" line, but what it really meant was "I don't want to give up my 'artificial' seniority". No one really wants to come out and say "I want to keep the commuters from bidding ATL, because I moved to base, and so should you" because it makes you sound like a tool, but on an annonymous survey, there's no filter needed. He went on to say the company didn't want it because for exactly as Tennis said, and it's the reason we can't do flow back today, in addition to any number of other issues, like edible crew meals or anything else that is in front of other employees.

sailingfun

Delta had a culture back then that all employees received the same benefits. I suspect that tied in with their desire to keep the airline non union. Ron Allen did in talking to the employees in SLC state we were demanding free rides for pilots from other airlines to fly to their bases to compete against us. Strange thing about that statement was two weeks prior we had dropped the demand for a reciprocal jumpseat and were asking for a in house jumpseat only so his statement was false.

BlueSkies

Sheesh! It's always interesting hearing how things were back in the day, thanks for the history lesson. It really gives some good perspective and I wish you could go give a 10-15 min talk to the NHs during Indoc.

Flyweight

And upgrade. There should be an ALPA day at upgrade indoc.

LumberJack

And their excuse for not improving them faster is budget. Somehow they just can't find the money.