Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2
12-22-2023, 03:31 AM
#3921
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Captain
Posts: 830
This so reminds me of when we had to take the keys away from grandpa. Although physically fit and what one consider "sharp" for his age and I have no doubt could have passed his drivers test most days...... yet he had 2 accidents in a matter of months by hitting the gas instead of the brake. All the experience in the world was not enough to overcome Father Time.
To pretend there should not be some sort of age limit for commercial operations is ridiculous. Is it age 65? Maybe not, but everyday beyond a certain point has you driving slower in the left lane and in our case, making a crucial mistake that you would not have made at a younger age. Our saving grace is that odds are the other pilot is there to catch it.
Last edited by RonRicco; 12-22-2023 at 04:03 AM.
12-22-2023, 03:40 AM
#3922
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,896
The issue being that if premiums continue to go up, and/or the fund continues to decline, the more people will opt out (myself included) and more newhires will choose not to enroll. This really isn't an retirement age argument, simply the realities of the situation.
12-22-2023, 05:11 AM
#3923
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,703
I can't help but think but he is trolling. The content seems very similar to an epic poster over on FB who claims everything that has an age restriction is "discrimination" although the constitutions itself has age limitations within.
This so reminds me of when we had to take the keys away from grandpa. Although physically fit and what one consider "sharp" for his age and I have no doubt could have passed his drivers test most days...... yet he had 2 accidents in a matter of months by hitting the gas instead of the brake. All the experience in the world was not enough to overcome Father Time.
To pretend there should not be some sort of age limit for commercial operations is ridiculous. Is it age 65? Maybe not, but everyday beyond a certain point has you driving slower in the left lane and in our case, making a crucial mistake that you would not have made at a younger age. Our saving grace is that odds are the other pilot is there to catch it.
This so reminds me of when we had to take the keys away from grandpa. Although physically fit and what one consider "sharp" for his age and I have no doubt could have passed his drivers test most days...... yet he had 2 accidents in a matter of months by hitting the gas instead of the brake. All the experience in the world was not enough to overcome Father Time.
To pretend there should not be some sort of age limit for commercial operations is ridiculous. Is it age 65? Maybe not, but everyday beyond a certain point has you driving slower in the left lane and in our case, making a crucial mistake that you would not have made at a younger age. Our saving grace is that odds are the other pilot is there to catch it.
12-22-2023, 05:31 AM
#3924
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,017
I can't help but think but he is trolling. The content seems very similar to an epic poster over on FB who claims everything that has an age restriction is "discrimination" although the constitutions itself has age limitations within.
This so reminds me of when we had to take the keys away from grandpa. Although physically fit and what one consider "sharp" for his age and I have no doubt could have passed his drivers test most days...... yet he had 2 accidents in a matter of months by hitting the gas instead of the brake. All the experience in the world was not enough to overcome Father Time.
To pretend there should not be some sort of age limit for commercial operations is ridiculous. Is it age 65? Maybe not, but everyday beyond a certain point has you driving slower in the left lane and in our case, making a crucial mistake that you would not have made at a younger age. Our saving grace is that odds are the other pilot is there to catch it.
This so reminds me of when we had to take the keys away from grandpa. Although physically fit and what one consider "sharp" for his age and I have no doubt could have passed his drivers test most days...... yet he had 2 accidents in a matter of months by hitting the gas instead of the brake. All the experience in the world was not enough to overcome Father Time.
To pretend there should not be some sort of age limit for commercial operations is ridiculous. Is it age 65? Maybe not, but everyday beyond a certain point has you driving slower in the left lane and in our case, making a crucial mistake that you would not have made at a younger age. Our saving grace is that odds are the other pilot is there to catch it.
It is discrimination - legal discrimination. Anything that "discriminates" or differentiates between two different things is discrimnation. 21 to drink in the US - discrimination, 35 to be the President - discrimination, you can't join the military when you are 15, no matter how many push-ups you can do - discrimination. All 100% legal but still discrimination.
I am not exactly sure when it happened but the populance of the US seems to have forgotten that there is plenty of discrimination that is not only legal but necessary. Now one can make the argument that age 65 is illegal and unfair but every argument you make for that is also a strike against 67 so the correct argument would be to eliminate age requirments totally but then why have a 23 year old requirment for an unrestricted ATP? It would be a slippery slope to try to eliminate all age requirements and just test to proficiency. There is definitely a safety factor by having an age cutoff. Yes most Pilots are cognitively fine and can safely operate past 65 but some can not. Could testing and physicals weed them out? I would say mostly, but 100% - never, so an age restriction is just one additional line of defense.
There are arguments to be made on both sides of this argument and I am still agnostic on it - maybe when I am 64, I will come around.
but at 60 still agnostic on it. If it doesn't come to fruition I can move from 330B to 330A and enjoy much better seniority right away, if it does pass I have the option of flying to 67. Arguing with fellow Pilots seems foolish because its not like we have any real say in the matter.Scoop
12-22-2023, 07:08 AM
#3925
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,571
It is discrimination - legal discrimination. Anything that "discriminates" or differentiates between two different things is discrimnation. 21 to drink in the US - discrimination, 35 to be the President - discrimination, you can't join the military when you are 15, no matter how many push-ups you can do - discrimination. All 100% legal but still discrimination.
I am not exactly sure when it happened but the populance of the US seems to have forgotten that there is plenty of discrimination that is not only legal but necessary. Now one can make the argument that age 65 is illegal and unfair but every argument you make for that is also a strike against 67 so the correct argument would be to eliminate age requirments totally but then why have a 23 year old requirment for an unrestricted ATP? It would be a slippery slope to try to eliminate all age requirements and just test to proficiency. There is definitely a safety factor by having an age cutoff. Yes most Pilots are cognitively fine and can safely operate past 65 but some can not. Could testing and physicals weed them out? I would say mostly, but 100% - never, so an age restriction is just one additional line of defense.
There are arguments to be made on both sides of this argument and I am still agnostic on it - maybe when I am 64, I will come around. but at 60 still agnostic on it. If it doesn't come to fruition I can move from 330B to 330A and enjoy much better seniority right away, if it does pass I have the option of flying to 67. Arguing with fellow Pilots seems foolish because its not like we have any real say in the matter.
Scoop
I am not exactly sure when it happened but the populance of the US seems to have forgotten that there is plenty of discrimination that is not only legal but necessary. Now one can make the argument that age 65 is illegal and unfair but every argument you make for that is also a strike against 67 so the correct argument would be to eliminate age requirments totally but then why have a 23 year old requirment for an unrestricted ATP? It would be a slippery slope to try to eliminate all age requirements and just test to proficiency. There is definitely a safety factor by having an age cutoff. Yes most Pilots are cognitively fine and can safely operate past 65 but some can not. Could testing and physicals weed them out? I would say mostly, but 100% - never, so an age restriction is just one additional line of defense.
There are arguments to be made on both sides of this argument and I am still agnostic on it - maybe when I am 64, I will come around.
but at 60 still agnostic on it. If it doesn't come to fruition I can move from 330B to 330A and enjoy much better seniority right away, if it does pass I have the option of flying to 67. Arguing with fellow Pilots seems foolish because its not like we have any real say in the matter.Scoop
12-22-2023, 09:13 AM
#3926
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,017
We might as well shut down APC then. The arguement is good and healthy as long as the arguing is kept to the subject and not the individual. This place is my morning coffee entertainment. Soduko and the USA today just don't do it for me anymore. Now, back to why changing the age to 67 is selfish, ignorant and regressive.
You are of course correct - arguing your points respectfully and academically without personal attacks is always welcome. What’s funny is how people don’t seem to realize that once they go personal with childish attacks they are having the opposite effect that I presume they are striving for. I guess some people just want to vent and that’s OK to just don’t vent via personal attacks.
Scoop
12-22-2023, 09:35 AM
#3927
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,986
You are of course correct - arguing your points respectfully and academically without personal attacks is always welcome. What’s funny is how people don’t seem to realize that once they go personal with childish attacks they are having the opposite effect that I presume they are striving for. I guess some people just want to vent and that’s OK to just don’t vent via personal attacks.
Scoop
Scoop
12-22-2023, 09:42 AM
#3928
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,986
Does anyone else recently have an annoying green "Auto Saved" banner perpetually popping up in the middle of the box as you are typing a post here, every 10 seconds or so?
Is there some setting I can change to make that thing go away?
Is there some setting I can change to make that thing go away?
12-22-2023, 10:09 AM
#3929
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,953
12-22-2023, 10:12 AM
#3930
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2023
Posts: 164
I can't help but think but he is trolling. The content seems very similar to an epic poster over on FB who claims everything that has an age restriction is "discrimination" although the constitutions itself has age limitations within.
This so reminds me of when we had to take the keys away from grandpa. Although physically fit and what one consider "sharp" for his age and I have no doubt could have passed his drivers test most days...... yet he had 2 accidents in a matter of months by hitting the gas instead of the brake. All the experience in the world was not enough to overcome Father Time.
To pretend there should not be some sort of age limit for commercial operations is ridiculous. Is it age 65? Maybe not, but everyday beyond a certain point has you driving slower in the left lane and in our case, making a crucial mistake that you would not have made at a younger age. Our saving grace is that odds are the other pilot is there to catch it.
This so reminds me of when we had to take the keys away from grandpa. Although physically fit and what one consider "sharp" for his age and I have no doubt could have passed his drivers test most days...... yet he had 2 accidents in a matter of months by hitting the gas instead of the brake. All the experience in the world was not enough to overcome Father Time.
To pretend there should not be some sort of age limit for commercial operations is ridiculous. Is it age 65? Maybe not, but everyday beyond a certain point has you driving slower in the left lane and in our case, making a crucial mistake that you would not have made at a younger age. Our saving grace is that odds are the other pilot is there to catch it.
I think there is an age restriction put into 91k/135 last year where previously there was none. It gives part 91k and 135 operators the option to age out people, so clearly there is precedent for giving legal cover to companies that want to push people out.
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