Originally Posted by Trip7

I put ZERO. Company is already putting in 16%. Plenty of tax efficient ways to invest outside of the 401k that doesn't require you to lock your money up for 20+ years. Too many folks in this nation are "Rich" on paper but cash poor/living paycheck to paycheck, ie majority of networth tied up in highly illiquid assets like their Primary Residence and 401k.

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Originally Posted by notEnuf

With a cash flow of 300K+ from an employer, why is putting money into appreciating assets bad? 401 is a tax deferred growth engine and a home is tax deferred if the sale is done right. Where are you getting better efficiency with relative low risk? This describes me to a T, net worth largely in historically low risk appreciating assets bought at value prices but illiquid. If I want to gamble with my net worth I can go to Vegas.

Originally Posted by Trip7

Better investments outside the 401k in no particular order(IMO):

Roth IRA
HSA
MLPs
Real Estate (Direct Ownership or Limited Partnership)
Taxable Brokerage Account(for much better Flexibility on Liquidity)

Never said putting additional money into the 401k was bad because it isn't. Personally I'm all about efficiency and outside of the 16% Delta already puts in the tax benefits of adding more money to the 401k is not worth the loss of liquidity for 20+ years outside of a 401k loan which is only up to 50k at a time. Especially when investments like Real Estate have similar tax benefits with a much shorter illiquid holding period.

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Originally Posted by notEnuf

Roth and hsa have much more limited contributions but I use them all. MLPs are taxed like stock distributions. They are only tax deferred when held not traded. They are partnerships like any other but larger and traded publicly. I guess I’m more buy and hold so liquidity is not an issue? Are you living off your investments or the job? I’m building a nest egg tax deferred so I can live off it later when my income draw will be in a lower tax bracket. My guess is that most here get cash flow from work, or they wouldn’t be working.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

With a cash flow of 300K+ from an employer, why is putting money into appreciating assets bad? 401 is a tax deferred growth engine and a home is tax deferred if the sale is done right. Where are you getting better efficiency with relative low risk? This describes me to a T, net worth largely in historically low risk appreciating assets bought at value prices but illiquid. If I want to gamble with my net worth I can go to Vegas.

Originally Posted by Trip7

I put ZERO. Company is already putting in 16%. Plenty of tax efficient ways to invest outside of the 401k that doesn't require you to lock your money up for 20+ years. Too many folks in this nation are "Rich" on paper but cash poor/living paycheck to paycheck, ie majority of networth tied up in highly illiquid assets like their Primary Residence and 401k.

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Originally Posted by Trip7

I'm living off my Delta income. Overall I believe the 401k is too limited on Liquidity and flexibility. I want my 401k to be my beer money in 30 years. When you look at how real wealth is built, most have done it thru assets outside of the 401k.

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Originally Posted by notEnuf

Fair enough but that's a lot of beer for me. The intent of the 401k is to be a retirement vehicle, in general liquidity is not a good thing for this. I owned rental property and each home upgrade was a value capture and doubled my existing equity at very favorable borrowing rates allowing me to use more income (maxing my tools for years now) for the wealth builder 401k. Nearly all of my rental income payed off my homes earlier allowing an upgrade with greater equity. Real estate is fine if you want to take the time and effort, however more complex investments can have a steep learning curve with substantial risk. The earlier you can max your tax advantaged vehicles the more efficient they are. The compounding alone on $64,500 (or more) a year in a low cost S&P 500 fund over 30 years is easily 8 figures with little effort, time or risk. QOL time spent doing things you enjoy vs. managing the high pressure stakes of your future is a no brainer for me.

https://www.raymondjames.com/spanosg...of%20dividends.

Originally Posted by Trip7

Agreed that it's intended to be a retirement vehicle. Moreover, thru tax savings, it's intended to encourage the middle class to save for retirement. The typical Delta pilot earns a high enough income to be an "accredited investor" allowing a pilot invest in more tax efficient vehicles like Real Estate Limited Partnerships outside the 401k. If I have $1m in an investment with a cash flowing 10%, that's $100k I can use to spend how ever I want. $1m in a 401k with 10% dividends grows your portfolio nicely but does nothing for your Liquidity

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Originally Posted by theUpsideDown

*Shrug* they won't. If only the world was the way it should be. Of course then you'd have to worry what if someone else thinks it should be another way. Well thats pretty complicated- its not happening so its not worth worrying about.

Originally Posted by RAH RAH REE

Retro pay? Yes, I can see that.

Signing bonus? I'd say no.

Originally Posted by JustNarced

I get it. A 40% raise costs well north of a billion annually and that money isn't currently there and wont be until we pay down our debt. The problem is, there is a legit pilot shortage and someone will end up without once the music stops. Working in our favor the industry has been able to build in a nearly 30% increase in RASM over the past two months alone, now an all time high. The CEOs for Hilton and Marriot were interviewed and talking about a 27% premium over 2019 highs. Viable businesses like Delta have been able to expand inflation well beyond costs as a final product to the consumer. There is no part of me that believes we will not return to QE, inflation is the only way forward without going into a Great Depression. My point, pay us in tomorrow's money but throw down an amount to make up for 2020-2023.

Six figure signing bonus into a tax free retirement vessel that's tradeable and DOUBLE our profit sharing percentages. Eliminate the <2.5B carveout. Restore the pre-C16 callout ladder (effectively end domestic system reserve). Positive Space to and from. Iron clad language with mandatory pulldowns for JV and CS flying. 30% for SLIs and LCA. Up front its a one time payment for a contract that was skipped, small overall costs to bolster our training department, ensure system reliability, end fatigue (the fatigue numbers in NYC need to be addressed) and pay the troops well going forward if we pull out of this. If the economy takes a dump, no 30% raise but everyone has a nice nest egg to dump into a depleted market at the bottom. If the market soars then profit sharing will make people very happy.

I think we said the same thing, I just spelled it out.