Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2
12-17-2023, 11:44 AM
#3762
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Nice gaslight.
12-17-2023, 11:47 AM
#3763
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
And there are equally or more so talented pilots who replaced them. Airline pilots aren't a special breed of humans. And I'd have no problem with them coming back at the back of the seniority list either
12-17-2023, 11:51 AM
#3764
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Oh> And I don't owe you a ****ing thing either.
12-17-2023, 11:56 AM
#3765
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,991
What exactly are you ACE'ing?
You had a flight cancel (which is spelled out in the defitnion of IROP) so the rotation you have now is your 23K assigned rotation.
First step of either 23.N or 23.O is recovery flying so no chance someone got passed over for a GS, WS, etc.
You had a flight cancel (which is spelled out in the defitnion of IROP) so the rotation you have now is your 23K assigned rotation.
First step of either 23.N or 23.O is recovery flying so no chance someone got passed over for a GS, WS, etc.
I am not sure. Was always told RR before airborne is illegal. Seems they woul have to NOOP my rotation and assign me 23 K which they did not do.
Anyhow I will probably fly it since the DHs work out quite well.
Scoop
12-17-2023, 11:59 AM
#3766
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
I do understand my statement was a tad oversimplified, and out of the posters in the close to retirement cohort, you are probably the most civil with well thought out arguments/opinions versus some of the other guys who are "we suffered, you must suffer WORSE, but your suffering WILL NEVER COUNT" (again, hyperbole a bit, but you see where I am aiming that)
That said, regardless of how bottom end scope got here, it really, really affected the careers of guys who are in the late 30s to early 50s age cohort. Civilian side, guys who were expecting to do 2-3 years as a regional FO then 2-3 CAPT then on to the majors by 30, were FOs for 10+ years. Guys like me who were military and in the olden times would have gone right from being a current/flying pilot, and go to a major with maybe a year of guard bumming / 91 / 135 between, werent' even able to get on with all but the sketchiest/lowest paying regionals. I worked on an oil rig and on piplelines.
But NB and some others on the FB pages basically poo-pooh any career downs we had experienced via 9/11, BK, Mergers, 65 because we weren't suffereing while on the DL/NW Seniority List.
That said, regardless of how bottom end scope got here, it really, really affected the careers of guys who are in the late 30s to early 50s age cohort. Civilian side, guys who were expecting to do 2-3 years as a regional FO then 2-3 CAPT then on to the majors by 30, were FOs for 10+ years. Guys like me who were military and in the olden times would have gone right from being a current/flying pilot, and go to a major with maybe a year of guard bumming / 91 / 135 between, werent' even able to get on with all but the sketchiest/lowest paying regionals. I worked on an oil rig and on piplelines.
But NB and some others on the FB pages basically poo-pooh any career downs we had experienced via 9/11, BK, Mergers, 65 because we weren't suffereing while on the DL/NW Seniority List.
12-17-2023, 12:16 PM
#3767
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,812
That's true. In fairness, 67 will have much less of an effect than what 60-65 did. Whether the economy plays a similar or lesser enhancing role remains to be seen. And don't pretend like that's not a possibility...
He didn't gaslight at all. CBreezy makes a fair point. There are a TON more pilots who were harmed much worse, with much less time to "make it up" (aka restoration) than the current 63-64 year olds. Using the argument "for" 67, that it's somehow making up for a stolen pension is lazy, and ignores the many pilots who were much deeper in the "DZ" than anyone here today. That's what drives many of the "against" crowd nuts. The ones who act like they are entitled to it, when there are (retired) pilots hurt worse who get/got nothing. "Too bad, so sad"
Look, I understand most of those who are "for" 67, and don't blame them one bit for hoping it passes. Frankly, if I were 64 I'd probably be for it too. But just be honest about the why. "Restoration" is an uncompelling, weak, and off-putting argument. "I feel good, want to work, and it's out of our hands anyway" is much more understandable, and won't get y'all nearly the blowback. You might even get a few converts. And obtw, "you just want me out of your seat" makes a good bumper sticker, but it is lazy too. There are lots of legitimate arguments "against".
Bottom line, you can't expect anyone to be sympathetic to your plight when you ignore and/or belittle theirs.
Look, I understand most of those who are "for" 67, and don't blame them one bit for hoping it passes. Frankly, if I were 64 I'd probably be for it too. But just be honest about the why. "Restoration" is an uncompelling, weak, and off-putting argument. "I feel good, want to work, and it's out of our hands anyway" is much more understandable, and won't get y'all nearly the blowback. You might even get a few converts. And obtw, "you just want me out of your seat" makes a good bumper sticker, but it is lazy too. There are lots of legitimate arguments "against".
Bottom line, you can't expect anyone to be sympathetic to your plight when you ignore and/or belittle theirs.
12-17-2023, 12:17 PM
#3768
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,891
Let's have ALPA go all in for age 70 with the caveat that after age 65 your seniority # resets to the bottom of the seniority list for the last 5yrs, retaining their longevity. Those that truly "love" it and/or don't have "enough" to retire are free to slug it out as new hires would for an addional 5yrs (assuming they keep their medical). This would likely starve DGS of sim instructors though.....
12-17-2023, 12:17 PM
#3769
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,812
He's right, at least in that an IROP can drive a change. The resulting rotation becomes your 23.K recovery obligation. Unless there is a travel waiver issued (with double 23.K), any further changes would require release IF you acknowlege the first change "first".
12-17-2023, 12:47 PM
#3770
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,378
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