Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2
12-17-2023, 10:55 AM
#3751
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,681
I chose my words carefully. Is that statement "drunk on soft pay" not accurate? Please, enlighten me how I should have used a different phraesology so as to accurately describe the context of the matter. Would you prefer I have used a different adjective?
Further, inflation adjusted plus significant increased rates would do the same, for more and benefit us all. As would LBP. Done beating that horse. Maybe one day, many years from now, you will underestand why some of us long termers like LBP and rates versus soft items. There's a reason they are called "soft" BTW.
Further, inflation adjusted plus significant increased rates would do the same, for more and benefit us all. As would LBP. Done beating that horse. Maybe one day, many years from now, you will underestand why some of us long termers like LBP and rates versus soft items. There's a reason they are called "soft" BTW.
as for the second paragraph, a section 3 focused negotiation could have yielded more money, sure. But a major complaint from many NB pilots was QOL. Our NC split the effort across QOL and pay. I can tell you right now if you gave me our TA as presented or a 30% raise DOS with none of the soft pay/ QOL changes I would take our current TA. But that’s just me.
12-17-2023, 10:56 AM
#3752
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,017
Ok I will keep this generic to not identifiy specific flights/rotations/crew names.
Original rotation had a DH to JFK, that flight cancelled. That makes this an IROP. (single 23K)
New rotation has a DH to LGA, same layover, rest of trip same. It reports about an hour after original report. This appears to be a legal 23K recovery, but should be noted as such.
Rest of trip beyond NYC layover is the same.
I think this falls under IROP due to CANX flight, and an IROP drives a legal SINGLE 23K recovery which this appears to be but should be noted on his schedule.
I am not an ALPA scheduling guy, I just get a lot of reroutes and am trying to sanity check this. I think it's legal as long as it gets a 23K tag on it.
Original rotation had a DH to JFK, that flight cancelled. That makes this an IROP. (single 23K)
New rotation has a DH to LGA, same layover, rest of trip same. It reports about an hour after original report. This appears to be a legal 23K recovery, but should be noted as such.
Rest of trip beyond NYC layover is the same.
I think this falls under IROP due to CANX flight, and an IROP drives a legal SINGLE 23K recovery which this appears to be but should be noted on his schedule.
I am not an ALPA scheduling guy, I just get a lot of reroutes and am trying to sanity check this. I think it's legal as long as it gets a 23K tag on it.
Thanks,
My limited bunk research comes up 23K also. I would rather the trip with bookend DHs and DV8 then risk recovery flying. I will ACE it and see what happens.
Scoop
12-17-2023, 10:58 AM
#3753
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 745
Are work rules soft pay? Has the company changed its behavior? Are rotations improving? Don't cross the streams here. Last time I checked, you can still get RR. They can still work you into off days. We still have GFB for sick. We still have on and aon and on. Soft pay did not fix that. Or the rotations, you just get paid for some of that pain. Maybe. If you audit regularly. On your own time. And don't get me started about the batch size capitulation.
12-17-2023, 11:00 AM
#3754
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Position: NYC 7ERA
Posts: 2,105
That said, regardless of how bottom end scope got here, it really, really affected the careers of guys who are in the late 30s to early 50s age cohort. Civilian side, guys who were expecting to do 2-3 years as a regional FO then 2-3 CAPT then on to the majors by 30, were FOs for 10+ years. Guys like me who were military and in the olden times would have gone right from being a current/flying pilot, and go to a major with maybe a year of guard bumming / 91 / 135 between, werent' even able to get on with all but the sketchiest/lowest paying regionals. I worked on an oil rig and on piplelines.
But NB and some others on the FB pages basically poo-pooh any career downs we had experienced via 9/11, BK, Mergers, 65 because we weren't suffereing while on the DL/NW Seniority List.
12-17-2023, 11:02 AM
#3755
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,832
if it was not meant as a disparaging comment I apologize.
as for the second paragraph, a section 3 focused negotiation could have yielded more money, sure. But a major complaint from many NB pilots was QOL. Our NC split the effort across QOL and pay. I can tell you right now if you gave me our TA as presented or a 30% raise DOS with none of the soft pay/ QOL changes I would take our current TA. But that’s just me.
as for the second paragraph, a section 3 focused negotiation could have yielded more money, sure. But a major complaint from many NB pilots was QOL. Our NC split the effort across QOL and pay. I can tell you right now if you gave me our TA as presented or a 30% raise DOS with none of the soft pay/ QOL changes I would take our current TA. But that’s just me.
12-17-2023, 11:34 AM
#3756
Can’t find crew pickup
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Posts: 2,301
Are work rules soft pay? Has the company changed its behavior? Are rotations improving? Don't cross the streams here. Last time I checked, you can still get RR. They can still work you into off days. We still have GFB for sick. We still have on and aon and on. Soft pay did not fix that. Or the rotations, you just get paid for some of that pain. Maybe. If you audit regularly. On your own time. And don't get me started about the batch size capitulation.
Batch sizes we will agree on.
12-17-2023, 11:53 AM
#3757
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,418
You had a flight cancel (which is spelled out in the defitnion of IROP) so the rotation you have now is your 23K assigned rotation.
First step of either 23.N or 23.O is recovery flying so no chance someone got passed over for a GS, WS, etc.
12-17-2023, 12:34 PM
#3758
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Position: 737 A
Posts: 1,070
I don't want to punish anyone. I just refuse to feel sorry for someone who might have to endure the same things airline pilots have been enduring since the dawn of the industry. But something something generation that thinks they're special and unique and deserve better treatment than everyone else got, and how dare you tell them that's not true.
Haven’t airline pilots also always endured a mandatory retirement age? So “you’re unique and deserve better treatment than everyone else got” and how dare (we) tell you that’s not true…..
simply amazing
12-17-2023, 12:39 PM
#3759
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
If 67 is approved, there will be 0 mandatory retirements for 2 years.
Less retirements mean less movement. Times are good and there has been a lot of movement, but things would slow. We don’t really know how much. Why are you so upset with people who don’t want their career progression to slow?
Less retirements mean less movement. Times are good and there has been a lot of movement, but things would slow. We don’t really know how much. Why are you so upset with people who don’t want their career progression to slow?
Not. Even. Close.
12-17-2023, 12:40 PM
#3760
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
When you write like this it shows all your motives. Obviously you want 2 more years for yourself, I can’t blame you there. But this post also shows that you want to “punish” someone else, which will somehow make right, the wrongs you’ve encountered. Even though the person to receive the “punishment” is innocent from your previous slight. Two wrongs clearly makes age 67 right
So here we are.
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