Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2
10-18-2023, 07:34 AM
#3111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
I guess we'll have to see how the meeting goes at the end of the month. Either way, we have filed grievances and they are working their way through the system. Hopefully they have a better plan than most of us do.
10-18-2023, 07:51 AM
#3112
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,806
The really crazy part of this comment is that it should sound ridiculous. Yet it's not any more ridiculous than the stance management has adopted as of late.
Hope is always a great plan lol. But you're right, we'll see how it goes. It's a shame they've taken this stance.
10-18-2023, 08:25 AM
#3113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Big ones
Posts: 773
Management now looks at two data points to celebrate the extent to which they duped the MEC: average time to cover a trip (with no available reserves), and average pay hour multiple paid per premium trip covered.
Fixing the 23M7 debacle for the company brought both numbers down, saving the company millions and eliminating operational issues. The MEC squandered millions of dollars in contractual leverage by giving it away. Management successfully pulled off a terrific gaslighting job.
It’s also important to remember that not EVERY trip being covered had a rogue pilot waiting in the shadows to call scheduling and snipe the trip out of seniority. It was not uncommon to see trip coverage take up to 24 hours previously. Today, the vast majority of premium trips are covered in under 1 hour. We streamlined the operation massively, saving the company millions, at no cost to them.
Fixing the 23M7 debacle for the company brought both numbers down, saving the company millions and eliminating operational issues. The MEC squandered millions of dollars in contractual leverage by giving it away. Management successfully pulled off a terrific gaslighting job.
It’s also important to remember that not EVERY trip being covered had a rogue pilot waiting in the shadows to call scheduling and snipe the trip out of seniority. It was not uncommon to see trip coverage take up to 24 hours previously. Today, the vast majority of premium trips are covered in under 1 hour. We streamlined the operation massively, saving the company millions, at no cost to them.
10-18-2023, 08:42 AM
#3114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
Management now looks at two data points to celebrate the extent to which they duped the MEC: average time to cover a trip (with no available reserves), and average pay hour multiple paid per premium trip covered.
Fixing the 23M7 debacle for the company brought both numbers down, saving the company millions and eliminating operational issues. The MEC squandered millions of dollars in contractual leverage by giving it away. Management successfully pulled off a terrific gaslighting job.
It’s also important to remember that not EVERY trip being covered had a rogue pilot waiting in the shadows to call scheduling and snipe the trip out of seniority. It was not uncommon to see trip coverage take up to 24 hours previously. Today, the vast majority of premium trips are covered in under 1 hour. We streamlined the operation massively, saving the company millions, at no cost to them.
Fixing the 23M7 debacle for the company brought both numbers down, saving the company millions and eliminating operational issues. The MEC squandered millions of dollars in contractual leverage by giving it away. Management successfully pulled off a terrific gaslighting job.
It’s also important to remember that not EVERY trip being covered had a rogue pilot waiting in the shadows to call scheduling and snipe the trip out of seniority. It was not uncommon to see trip coverage take up to 24 hours previously. Today, the vast majority of premium trips are covered in under 1 hour. We streamlined the operation massively, saving the company millions, at no cost to them.
This isn't about a few pilots calling in for a good deal. Yes, it happened and it wasn't rare. This is about the fact they were using IA to circumvent seniority, legally, to get trips covered because that's really all they cared about. And some pilots used this IA coverage fest as their cover to get good deals. Senior pilots who had no intent to ever fly a GS were putting in GS to try and fish for 23M7 pay which bogged down the system even more. All the while real pilots who wanted to fly a GS were having their premium flying snatched up by a guy who called to accept a IA (no penalty for getting passed over on a IA) and a senior guy sitting at home not wanting to fly was, maybe, getting 23M7 pay. Maybe because there is an untold number of pilots who aren't going to get 23M7 pay because it slipped through the cracks on a very, very large scale.
In the end, unlimited batch sizes harms no one, except maybe those senior pilots pulling in 23M7 or batch size pay for free. It allows the premium pay to go to the right person. Or it allows WS to go to the right person. Many people were passed over for same-day/next-day WS because the schedulers just ran the IA coverage right out of the gate if they knew they had a lot of flying to cover.
10-18-2023, 09:07 AM
#3115
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
Either way, 23M7 was being abused and we didn’t have much recourse. I’m completely convinced we would’ve lost that grievance and thus established a precedent at the same time.
I can say the number of IAs has gone down significantly. And at least in my category, I haven’t noticed/seen 23M7 get used since we did away with batch sizes.
10-18-2023, 09:42 AM
#3116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 929
In the end, unlimited batch sizes harms no one, except maybe those senior pilots pulling in 23M7 or batch size pay for free. It allows the premium pay to go to the right person. Or it allows WS to go to the right person. Many people were passed over for same-day/next-day WS because the schedulers just ran the IA coverage right out of the gate if they knew they had a lot of flying to cover.
Pilots being passed over for a WS by an IA represented a gold mine for the pilot group as a whole. Yes, there were temporary seniority fairness issues, but we needed to be patient and recognize the value of what we were sitting on. Had the MEC valued it appropriately, the fix could have brought a lot more to the pilot group. Meanwhile, anyone who wanted premium flying was getting it, even if the order of assignment was less predictable.
In the end, the MEC freely gave the company something that was worth many millions for a tiny quid that was worth far less. The weakness and incompetence shown by Hartmann has not been forgotten by management. It’s the backdrop for what we have going on today.
10-18-2023, 09:51 AM
#3117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,368
This is the weakest MEC we've had since Lee Moak and the Surrender Monkeys. And the pilot group is paying the price.
The problem is that 1/2 of the pilot group was hired after 2016. A third were hired after 2021. They are blithely unaware of history and are taking early upgrades to captain. For the first time in their lives, they're looking at making $300K a year. Plus, most of them came from the regionals where they were treated way worse. What we see as terrible treatment, is better than their best day at Endeavor or Republic or Mesa. Hence, they don't care to fight.
The weakness and division in the MEC has given the company free rein to steamroll us, and Hartmann is a corrupt politician, who I've heard, has his hands in several cookie jars. Hell, he wasn't even an active pilot when he got elected with barely a majority of the MEC votes. All he cares about is to grab as much as he can before his retirement in a few years. He's a bitter North guy who still talks about how bad he got screwed in the merger. Now he's hijacked the Delta MEC and is letting a bunch of weaklings run the show while he cavorts around Europe working on some "investment" he's got going.
Not to mention that RG is now running the show on the 4th floor. This is precisely why we're seeing all of this regional airline BS here now, first with the optimized schedules, now ignoring our contract and abusing the grievance system to run roughshod over us. Straight out of the regional airline management playbook. More to come, I assure you.
Yes, we the pilot group are at the crossroads of these two things. Unless people wake up and clean house at the MEC level, we're going to see more and more of what used to be great about this company stripped away until we are just a larger version of Endeavor. Because that's exactly what management wants, and we have an MEC that completely incapable or unwilling to do anything about it except send out strongly worded emails and self deal. But on the up side, I've heard the open bar and buffet at the MEC meetings is top notch.
The problem is that 1/2 of the pilot group was hired after 2016. A third were hired after 2021. They are blithely unaware of history and are taking early upgrades to captain. For the first time in their lives, they're looking at making $300K a year. Plus, most of them came from the regionals where they were treated way worse. What we see as terrible treatment, is better than their best day at Endeavor or Republic or Mesa. Hence, they don't care to fight.
The weakness and division in the MEC has given the company free rein to steamroll us, and Hartmann is a corrupt politician, who I've heard, has his hands in several cookie jars. Hell, he wasn't even an active pilot when he got elected with barely a majority of the MEC votes. All he cares about is to grab as much as he can before his retirement in a few years. He's a bitter North guy who still talks about how bad he got screwed in the merger. Now he's hijacked the Delta MEC and is letting a bunch of weaklings run the show while he cavorts around Europe working on some "investment" he's got going.
Not to mention that RG is now running the show on the 4th floor. This is precisely why we're seeing all of this regional airline BS here now, first with the optimized schedules, now ignoring our contract and abusing the grievance system to run roughshod over us. Straight out of the regional airline management playbook. More to come, I assure you.
Yes, we the pilot group are at the crossroads of these two things. Unless people wake up and clean house at the MEC level, we're going to see more and more of what used to be great about this company stripped away until we are just a larger version of Endeavor. Because that's exactly what management wants, and we have an MEC that completely incapable or unwilling to do anything about it except send out strongly worded emails and self deal. But on the up side, I've heard the open bar and buffet at the MEC meetings is top notch.
I think that different than before, newer pilots (in general) that comes from the regionals, are out there looking for the loopholes to maximize their gains. Which is why probably management is acting as they are now.
Yes, a day at DAL is better than a day at my regional, but I’m not letting them going away with the money they own me. That’s my job at a CA, I might not buy a NH food every single day, but I’m looking up for his/her and my money. One day we got illegally rerouted, company wanted to pay us only 1:35min, when they owned us 50hrs of pay. Took me 3 weeks, but we got our money.
10-18-2023, 10:03 AM
#3118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,613
10-18-2023, 10:03 AM
#3119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
The fix lowered total pilot payroll with all other factors being equal, saving the company millions. It also reduced coverage time and reduced delays.
Pilots being passed over for a WS by an IA represented a gold mine for the pilot group as a whole. Yes, there were temporary seniority fairness issues, but we needed to be patient and recognize the value of what we were sitting on. Had the MEC valued it appropriately, the fix could have brought a lot more to the pilot group. Meanwhile, anyone who wanted premium flying was getting it, even if the order of assignment was less predictable.
In the end, the MEC freely gave the company something that was worth many millions for a tiny quid that was worth far less. The weakness and incompetence shown by Hartmann has not been forgotten by management. It’s the backdrop for what we have going on today.
Pilots being passed over for a WS by an IA represented a gold mine for the pilot group as a whole. Yes, there were temporary seniority fairness issues, but we needed to be patient and recognize the value of what we were sitting on. Had the MEC valued it appropriately, the fix could have brought a lot more to the pilot group. Meanwhile, anyone who wanted premium flying was getting it, even if the order of assignment was less predictable.
In the end, the MEC freely gave the company something that was worth many millions for a tiny quid that was worth far less. The weakness and incompetence shown by Hartmann has not been forgotten by management. It’s the backdrop for what we have going on today.
As I said, I'm not happy that they gave so much and there is the perception they didn't get enough. I think we could have gotten more. But batch sizes had to go. They were unnecessary
10-18-2023, 10:05 AM
#3120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,454
No that was in a weekly update where they said they were limiting ARCOS to a maximum of 25 trips per call out. I guess the phone side of ARCOS couldn’t handle more than that hence the limit. Actual pilot batch sizes still have no limit. I’ve gotten several of 50+ just in the last week.
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