Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2
10-18-2023, 04:16 AM
#3091
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A319/321 FO
Posts: 316
Disagree. It might have been slightly more disruptive but they had carte blanche to use 23m7 and they were using it liberally without any real consequences. Maybe 1/3 of the penalty was being recovered. And pilots who should have been getting double pay were often getting nothing because of all the people fishing for batch sizes and m7 pay. A not insignificant amount of people were being harmed. Getting rid of batch sizes stopped the absurd practice of calling to get IA that was going on.
real question, not snarky..
do you have any data on this? Or is it anecdotal?
id love to see the before/after on this.. especially the IA part
10-18-2023, 05:09 AM
#3092
Has a furrowed brow
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,201
It would be impossible to get imperial data to tell the entire story. *If* the affected pilot noticed, *and* they called CS or filed an ACE, some data would be there.
Someone with more time on their hands could probably go back and look at the number of inverse assignments that were going out before vs after, but it would still be impossible to tell who was fishing for them and who wasn’t without cross checking individual schedules.
Either way, 23M7 was being abused and we didn’t have much recourse. I’m completely convinced we would’ve lost that grievance and thus established a precedent at the same time.
I can say the number of IAs has gone down significantly. And at least in my category, I haven’t noticed/seen 23M7 get used since we did away with batch sizes.
I said this originally and I stand by it: the people most upset by the batch size change had blanket GS in with no intention of flying (fishing for batch size violations) or were those who were calling CS and working side deals.
BL, the coverage ladder is (mostly) being utilized as intended, meaning the proper pilots are being paid more often now than before the change.
10-18-2023, 05:53 AM
#3094
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 670
It’s no surprise at all given Hartmann’s forfeiture of our batch size language for absolutely nothing in return. The current MEC has done nothing but embolden the company to defy our contract. Our first step should be replacing everyone in the MEC who had any part in that.
The problem is that 1/2 of the pilot group was hired after 2016. A third were hired after 2021. They are blithely unaware of history and are taking early upgrades to captain. For the first time in their lives, they're looking at making $300K a year. Plus, most of them came from the regionals where they were treated way worse. What we see as terrible treatment, is better than their best day at Endeavor or Republic or Mesa. Hence, they don't care to fight.
The weakness and division in the MEC has given the company free rein to steamroll us, and Hartmann is a corrupt politician, who I've heard, has his hands in several cookie jars. Hell, he wasn't even an active pilot when he got elected with barely a majority of the MEC votes. All he cares about is to grab as much as he can before his retirement in a few years. He's a bitter North guy who still talks about how bad he got screwed in the merger. Now he's hijacked the Delta MEC and is letting a bunch of weaklings run the show while he cavorts around Europe working on some "investment" he's got going.
Not to mention that RG is now running the show on the 4th floor. This is precisely why we're seeing all of this regional airline BS here now, first with the optimized schedules, now ignoring our contract and abusing the grievance system to run roughshod over us. Straight out of the regional airline management playbook. More to come, I assure you.
Yes, we the pilot group are at the crossroads of these two things. Unless people wake up and clean house at the MEC level, we're going to see more and more of what used to be great about this company stripped away until we are just a larger version of Endeavor. Because that's exactly what management wants, and we have an MEC that completely incapable or unwilling to do anything about it except send out strongly worded emails and self deal. But on the up side, I've heard the open bar and buffet at the MEC meetings is top notch.
10-18-2023, 05:56 AM
#3095
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,907
We'll be down to approximately 40 767-300ER's ("ER's") next summer. Right now we have no other tools in the toolbox for thinner Europe/Africa (JFK to ACC/DSS/BRU/CPH/ARN/LGW ...)
10-18-2023, 06:07 AM
#3096
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 793
A5S
10-18-2023, 06:09 AM
#3097
Rerouted On Weekends
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 717A
Posts: 2,937
This is the weakest MEC we've had since Lee Moak and the Surrender Monkeys. And the pilot group is paying the price.
The problem is that 1/2 of the pilot group was hired after 2016. A third were hired after 2021. They are blithely unaware of history and are taking early upgrades to captain. For the first time in their lives, they're looking at making $300K a year. Plus, most of them came from the regionals where they were treated way worse. What we see as terrible treatment, is better than their best day at Endeavor or Republic or Mesa. Hence, they don't care to fight.
The weakness and division in the MEC has given the company free rein to steamroll us, and Hartmann is a corrupt politician, who I've heard, has his hands in several cookie jars. Hell, he wasn't even an active pilot when he got elected with barely a majority of the MEC votes. All he cares about is to grab as much as he can before his retirement in a few years. He's a bitter North guy who still talks about how bad he got screwed in the merger. Now he's hijacked the Delta MEC and is letting a bunch of weaklings run the show while he cavorts around Europe working on some "investment" he's got going.
Not to mention that RG is now running the show on the 4th floor. This is precisely why we're seeing all of this regional airline BS here now, first with the optimized schedules, now ignoring our contract and abusing the grievance system to run roughshod over us. Straight out of the regional airline management playbook. More to come, I assure you.
Yes, we the pilot group are at the crossroads of these two things. Unless people wake up and clean house at the MEC level, we're going to see more and more of what used to be great about this company stripped away until we are just a larger version of Endeavor. Because that's exactly what management wants, and we have an MEC that completely incapable or unwilling to do anything about it except send out strongly worded emails and self deal. But on the up side, I've heard the open bar and buffet at the MEC meetings is top notch.
The problem is that 1/2 of the pilot group was hired after 2016. A third were hired after 2021. They are blithely unaware of history and are taking early upgrades to captain. For the first time in their lives, they're looking at making $300K a year. Plus, most of them came from the regionals where they were treated way worse. What we see as terrible treatment, is better than their best day at Endeavor or Republic or Mesa. Hence, they don't care to fight.
The weakness and division in the MEC has given the company free rein to steamroll us, and Hartmann is a corrupt politician, who I've heard, has his hands in several cookie jars. Hell, he wasn't even an active pilot when he got elected with barely a majority of the MEC votes. All he cares about is to grab as much as he can before his retirement in a few years. He's a bitter North guy who still talks about how bad he got screwed in the merger. Now he's hijacked the Delta MEC and is letting a bunch of weaklings run the show while he cavorts around Europe working on some "investment" he's got going.
Not to mention that RG is now running the show on the 4th floor. This is precisely why we're seeing all of this regional airline BS here now, first with the optimized schedules, now ignoring our contract and abusing the grievance system to run roughshod over us. Straight out of the regional airline management playbook. More to come, I assure you.
Yes, we the pilot group are at the crossroads of these two things. Unless people wake up and clean house at the MEC level, we're going to see more and more of what used to be great about this company stripped away until we are just a larger version of Endeavor. Because that's exactly what management wants, and we have an MEC that completely incapable or unwilling to do anything about it except send out strongly worded emails and self deal. But on the up side, I've heard the open bar and buffet at the MEC meetings is top notch.
10-18-2023, 06:11 AM
#3098
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
This is the weakest MEC we've had since Lee Moak and the Surrender Monkeys. And the pilot group is paying the price.
The problem is that 1/2 of the pilot group was hired after 2016. A third were hired after 2021. They are blithely unaware of history and are taking early upgrades to captain. For the first time in their lives, they're looking at making $300K a year. Plus, most of them came from the regionals where they were treated way worse. What we see as terrible treatment, is better than their best day at Endeavor or Republic or Mesa. Hence, they don't care to fight.
The weakness and division in the MEC has given the company free rein to steamroll us, and Hartmann is a corrupt politician, who I've heard, has his hands in several cookie jars. Hell, he wasn't even an active pilot when he got elected with barely a majority of the MEC votes. All he cares about is to grab as much as he can before his retirement in a few years. He's a bitter North guy who still talks about how bad he got screwed in the merger. Now he's hijacked the Delta MEC and is letting a bunch of weaklings run the show while he cavorts around Europe working on some "investment" he's got going.
Not to mention that RG is now running the show on the 4th floor. This is precisely why we're seeing all of this regional airline BS here now, first with the optimized schedules, now ignoring our contract and abusing the grievance system to run roughshod over us. Straight out of the regional airline management playbook. More to come, I assure you.
Yes, we the pilot group are at the crossroads of these two things. Unless people wake up and clean house at the MEC level, we're going to see more and more of what used to be great about this company stripped away until we are just a larger version of Endeavor. Because that's exactly what management wants, and we have an MEC that completely incapable or unwilling to do anything about it except send out strongly worded emails and self deal. But on the up side, I've heard the open bar and buffet at the MEC meetings is top notch.
The problem is that 1/2 of the pilot group was hired after 2016. A third were hired after 2021. They are blithely unaware of history and are taking early upgrades to captain. For the first time in their lives, they're looking at making $300K a year. Plus, most of them came from the regionals where they were treated way worse. What we see as terrible treatment, is better than their best day at Endeavor or Republic or Mesa. Hence, they don't care to fight.
The weakness and division in the MEC has given the company free rein to steamroll us, and Hartmann is a corrupt politician, who I've heard, has his hands in several cookie jars. Hell, he wasn't even an active pilot when he got elected with barely a majority of the MEC votes. All he cares about is to grab as much as he can before his retirement in a few years. He's a bitter North guy who still talks about how bad he got screwed in the merger. Now he's hijacked the Delta MEC and is letting a bunch of weaklings run the show while he cavorts around Europe working on some "investment" he's got going.
Not to mention that RG is now running the show on the 4th floor. This is precisely why we're seeing all of this regional airline BS here now, first with the optimized schedules, now ignoring our contract and abusing the grievance system to run roughshod over us. Straight out of the regional airline management playbook. More to come, I assure you.
Yes, we the pilot group are at the crossroads of these two things. Unless people wake up and clean house at the MEC level, we're going to see more and more of what used to be great about this company stripped away until we are just a larger version of Endeavor. Because that's exactly what management wants, and we have an MEC that completely incapable or unwilling to do anything about it except send out strongly worded emails and self deal. But on the up side, I've heard the open bar and buffet at the MEC meetings is top notch.
Also, the random ad hominem about half this pilot group, most of which has dealt with regional airline management somehow being naively complicit in....returning this company to the poor working conditions of their former employer they just left?
But hey. It wouldn't be an anti-DALPA post without someone bringing up Lee Moak, for some reason. All we need in our DPA bingo card is the "Sane email" and the black shirts to really complete the line.
10-18-2023, 06:14 AM
#3099
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
With batch sizes, we got visibility and future programming every single time CS uses 23M7, something they didn't have to do before. We also got our first actual restriction on the usage of M7. They could, did and promised expansion of the usage of 23M7 well beyond the now defined 8 hour boundary. And we also got seniority protection as a side effect of batch sizes. Now, instead of people calling up and getting awarded IA because they told them they were available, the correct person is getting a GS. Yes, at certain times, they are spamming the whole list. Oh well. I'd much rather get a call for a trip I'm not senior enough to hold than not get a call and get passed over (and never paid) for one that I was senior enough to hold.
10-18-2023, 06:17 AM
#3100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
They are still using it carte blanche via rerouting pilots for flying that is already in opentime. Just isn't as easy to see because there isn't a noticable A#1 for everyone to see on trip coverages. And guess what, they shockingly aren't updating their 23m7 list they agreed to update when they do it.
I would love to see how much money was paid out in 23Z pay. We literally gave away millions a year and are only slightly better off than we were before. All to get something that we already contractually were owed...
I would love to see how much money was paid out in 23Z pay. We literally gave away millions a year and are only slightly better off than we were before. All to get something that we already contractually were owed...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
