Bainite

Any word on when the May 8th AE might get posted?

TED74

I haven’t given it a lot of thought myself. Random thoughts in no particular order:

VEOPers took their deal and should probably be excluded from any further compensation.

Plenty of VEOP-eligible pilots stuck around and should be retro’d for any work performed since the contract became amendable. No need to incentivize the company to stall every cycle.

If you retire early, you should probably not expect any retro pay. If you’ve stuck it out to mandatory retirement age, I support cutting you a retro check.

Buck Rogers

Seems to me the issue is either the per-capita bonus/signing or the W-2 ideology. Through out my career, most(all?) pay issues have been W-2 based. Even the VEOP's had a choice using the best available data at the time. VEOP's helped out those behind in exchange for no work some pay(paid by .gov). What if someone took the VEOP but their VEOP date was after their Age 65 date? I personally know several that fell into that category. Seems too many carve-outs. Just pay it on W-2 by year and it mostly mitigates carve outs or glaring(?) injustices. If, they we here or earned a W-2 they get the yearly pay (COLA) pro rated by the W-2 earnings.

Just thoughts...no right or wrong answers.

GogglesPisano

It seems like we're counting chickens before the horse here.

How are negotiations going again?

Not well when it comes to the important stuff as I understand it. I don't see a deal until we're in recession next year.

Gunfighter

The concept you proposed makes sense. We had a pay raise in Jan 2019, so I would expect the first year of retro (5%) applied to 2020 earnings. Put another amount (5%) on top of that for 2021 and use the newly negotiated rates (20% total gain) for 2022. The company still reaps a huge savings because QOL isn't retro and they are paying retro with inflated $$.

*I left off the compounding decimals in the interest of simplicity.

Gone Flying

most VEOP’rs only would be eligible for 8 months of retro, so I doubt that would be a huge sticking point, especially if it is something like what gunfighter said above

Wolf424

The bid posted yesterday.

You mean the results? I’m going with 1600 on the 20th. Might carry over until Monday.

WIPilot

Your interpretation is how retro is typically done. His is more of a signing bonus idea I think.

Buck Rogers

Anything is possible, but that concept is probably a non starter from the companies perspective due to the cost. Let's say (due to inflation) the new rate is immediately a 22% pay bump. They aren't going to apply that 22% back 3 years...I think it would be a graduated pay bump per year based on W-2. At least that would be a reasonable approach instead of shooting for the moon with a 2.5B price tag day one. If that's the ask, standby for an even more protracted negotiation because delay probably favors the company. (recession vs meltdown are the pressure points)

Gunfighter

When the contract is signed within one year of the amendable date retro pay calculation is fairly straightforward. Just apply the negotiated rate retroactively to hours already flown for the year. In the current situation where it has gone beyond one year, it may be calculated using one rate for 2020, a higher rate for 2021 and our negotiated rate for 2022. This would mirror the annual increases in pay rates had we completed a deal on time.

The parts of the new contract we never recover are scope and QOL. Those years have been forever lost and are how the company gains with a stalled contract, even if paying full retro. Full retro is not a WIN, it represents years of lost scope and QOL. In that same vein, asking for FULL retro is not the big fantasy many would lead you to believe. It represents an interest free loan on wages with years of scope and QOL concessions in the process.

IMHO, we should have 2020 pay rates applied to the VEOP participants. Furthermore 2020, 2021, 2022 rates should be applied to normal retirees during those years.