sailingfun

The process does not look at how you arrived on a seniority list. It takes a snapshot on the constructive date of the merger and works off that.

Meme In Command

Is there historical precedent of a merger between 2 lists where the unions of both pilot lists came to a predetermined agreement before said merger was even brought to the table?

CBreezy

I feel like I'm talking to myself here. Why are we talking about a "merger." We don't have the airplanes they fly on property. We could structure a list integration as an advanced flow as we bring airplanes on property. Stop hiring on their bottom. More people from the top. Why even bother with a list merger?

Big E 757

Two things…because both companies are owned by Delta Air Lines, INC, I would imagine that would make it easier for a prenuptial agreement, but Delta could just decide to bring the airplanes over to mainline and close the doors at Endeavor, and offer the pilots an opportunity to come over with their EDV seniority. That would probably be much more efficient than going through the whole merger process. Delta is very cost conscious and whichever process is cheaper and more efficient will carry the day. Maybe there is a bigger tax benefit to closing up shop, acquiring the aircraft at mainline, and writing off endeavor at a loss somehow?? The employees already work for Delta, just close one division and transfer employees and assets to the mainline division. Think Comair, but we keep the aircraft and employees.

Also, why is this discussion going on? Have our union divisions been tasked by management with talking out a solution or process by management? Or is this just typical Pilot speculation? Whatever happens, I hope things work our for the better for our Endeavor brethren and sisters. I’ve always been treated well on them, and have nothing but respect.

Meme In Command

I've made your argument in the past. I'm entertaining their argument for the sake of hearing them out.

Nantonaku

It is just one area the arbitrator should consider and history shows an arbitrator can fully ignore it or put such a small weight on it that is means nothing.

CBreezy

Yeah. I know we are on the same page..I had to quote someone because the mobile interface is garbage. Anyways, I just don't see a merger of a regional and a major in this environment. It's messy and expensive for Delta.

iaflyer

This would probably be the best for Delta - they can close the doors at EDV (just like they did at Comair) and take what they need. Because EDV would "shutdown" - there isn't any need to negotiate with existing EDV employees on coming over, their senority or pay rate. They say "this is the deal - take it or leave it". There are more employees groups than just pilots, FA, mechanics, dispatchers, etc who have their own situations.

I brought up my points because many of the people here assumed that an EDV merger would result in a staple. Unlikely in my opinion, and Sailing has made excellent points that should be read again. I'm sure "top men" at the Union are discussing it, but their goals and the line pilots goals are not always oriented the same way. Would they merge, and ratio in EDV pilots starting at the top A220 pilot in order to facilitate a merger and prevent a lawsuit down the road? Perhaps.

Asking questions of the reps and discussing the "what ifs" is good for everyone. Having seen a few mergers go through over the years, rarely does it work like the pilots thought it would. There are numerous examples if you look around that would shock you and have a response of "what? That's not fair!"... yep.. life isn't fair sometimes.

gloopy

While that matters a lot to individual pilots, it wouldmean nothing to an arbitrator. I'm sure there were some pilots who left an airline that eventually merged with another one. They never get any credit whatsoever for that. No arbitrator will ever care about that; its not a thing.

The bottom line of all of this is that we would be playing with fire. The threat of something greater than a staple would be real. Why mess with that when we could get the exact same end result by flowing even more EDV pilots until that flying is phased out?

gloopy

As for 1., DL most certainly could not do that. The DL PWA mandates how seniority is assigned. By class date and last 4 SSN within a class. Management would have no latitude to deviate from that. They can't just go off contract with seniority or anything else like that.

What they could do is very closely mimmic that by offering up an agressive amount of flows. However most if not all of those planes, which the company has refused to contractually reduce by even one, would still have to be flown for a while, perhaps a long time still.

Would DL add that type to the mainline while simultaneously flying the same type outsourced at the regionals? Would they still continue to take OTS pilots in addition to flows? Would this save any money or solve any problems? What would the pay rates be for a 70 or 76 seater? Would any of this coincide with DL PWA mandated reductions of "permitted types"?

We would be in uncharter waters with all of this, and no one knows what would happen if an arbitrator got involved.

As for 2., I 100% agree. Regional pilots work hard and fly more legs per day on average than most mainline pilots. I've seen them do everything they could to get pilots on the JS and likewise have done the same when I could.

They're great pilots and we should all want them here as well as wanting the end of the whipsaw FFD model. I just don't see any other way to do it then to ramp up the flows (and/or OTS hiring) while contractually reducing allowed large RJ's that can be outsourced.