Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2
05-21-2023, 07:33 AM
#2141
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,588
Yes, you did. Several different ways, in fact.
//Break Break//
Even if... Even if it got to arbitration, it's extremely likely the arbitrator would duly consider the career expectations, status, and category - and conclude they are all clearly 100% below every last pilot on the DL seniority list. it's actually not that complicated.
//Break Break//
Even if... Even if it got to arbitration, it's extremely likely the arbitrator would duly consider the career expectations, status, and category - and conclude they are all clearly 100% below every last pilot on the DL seniority list. it's actually not that complicated.
05-21-2023, 07:33 AM
#2142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Hates Commuting
Posts: 957
Yeah, I looked through that, but it's one 7 day trip with no flying a week before on my sched and three x days that would follow in reserve month. The swap says denied for 30/168 rest (pilot swap) but the trip is 140hr TAFB and there is no duty before or after on my schedule.
05-21-2023, 07:34 AM
#2143
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,802
I don’t think it’s fair but what’s fair and what will happen are two very different things. The scenario you mention has played out in past mergers in various ways. It won’t even be a consideration in merging the lists. The first thing that will happen is a constructive date of merger will be determined. Usually the day a public announcement of intent to merge is made by management. A snap shot of each seniority list will be taken on that date. Each list will then be stove piped showing what each pilot would hold if everyone bid the highest paying equipment. The arbitrator will work off those two lists. Who you worked for before and how you came to be on a list will not even be a factor that the arbitrator looks at.
This is all academic anyway.
05-21-2023, 07:35 AM
#2144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I don’t think it’s fair but what’s fair and what will happen are two very different things. The scenario you mention has played out in past mergers in various ways. It won’t even be a consideration in merging the lists. The first thing that will happen is a constructive date of merger will be determined. Usually the day a public announcement of intent to merge is made by management. A snap shot of each seniority list will be taken on that date. Each list will then be stove piped showing what each pilot would hold if everyone bid the highest paying equipment. The arbitrator will work off those two lists. Who you worked for before and how you came to be on a list will not even be a factor that the arbitrator looks at.
Even if that was the initial result, DALPA would spend millions for years on frivolous lawsuits.
The only way to do it, at this point, is via new-hiring from the EDV list as managemebt sees fit.
Could that be in the form of a high volume flow? Sure. That way whoever wants to bypass can do so, and no DL pilot is ever at risk of being seniority jumped.
None of this matters anyway if they don't actually move the RJ's onto the mainline. I really doubt they will do that now. The time to do so has long passed.
IMO the only way an EDV pilot ever gets to a DL 717/220 or above is by starting on the bottom of the DL list, one way or the other (flow or off the street).
05-21-2023, 08:27 AM
#2145
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2023
Posts: 9
For DL pilots, unless a staple was iron clad guaranteed, it's all risk/no reward.
Even if that was the initial result, DALPA would spend millions for years on frivolous lawsuits.
The only way to do it, at this point, is via new-hiring from the EDV list as managemebt sees fit.
Could that be in the form of a high volume flow? Sure. That way whoever wants to bypass can do so, and no DL pilot is ever at risk of being seniority jumped.
None of this matters anyway if they don't actually move the RJ's onto the mainline. I really doubt they will do that now. The time to do so has long passed.
IMO the only way an EDV pilot ever gets to a DL 717/220 or above is by starting on the bottom of the DL list, one way or the other (flow or off the street).
Even if that was the initial result, DALPA would spend millions for years on frivolous lawsuits.
The only way to do it, at this point, is via new-hiring from the EDV list as managemebt sees fit.
Could that be in the form of a high volume flow? Sure. That way whoever wants to bypass can do so, and no DL pilot is ever at risk of being seniority jumped.
None of this matters anyway if they don't actually move the RJ's onto the mainline. I really doubt they will do that now. The time to do so has long passed.
IMO the only way an EDV pilot ever gets to a DL 717/220 or above is by starting on the bottom of the DL list, one way or the other (flow or off the street).
It’s simple, the 9E pilots are already in an organized flow … that’s their career expectation. There are no other reasonable expectations of any regional pilot other than potentially entering a larger carriers list “at the bottom”. And … there is no defined merger policy for mergers that aren’t “in kind” … and a regional carrier and a legacy carrier were never “in kind”. And … the most senior pilot has flowed to the most junior pilot position at Delta each month. All an agreement would do is instantly flow the entire list or call it a “staple”. Both pilot groups union leaders have already agreed on this premise. There is no lawsuit possible unless you allow one 9E pilot to potentially jump one previous 9E pilot that just flowed to our most recent class at Delta. The career expectations of a regional pilot and a legacy pilot are dramatically different.
It’s a smart move and would instantly freeze any 9E Captain toying with leaving for another legacy. In fact, it could entice a lot more DEC to potentially try to get on Endeavors list before this happens. The thought is get on the list now or get on the tail end of a stapled list. It fixes everything! Deltas source of pilots, Endeavors ability to staff and it once again shows “outside the box” thinking. There is no risks with the ground rules they’ve laid out … the Endeavor guys keep the bonuses promised … the two groups accept the premise of a stapled seniority list. Otherwise, the talks would not have started.
It’s smart and it’s a good move for each carrier to reclaim their own flying.
Last edited by Busdog; 05-21-2023 at 08:39 AM.
05-21-2023, 08:42 AM
#2146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
I don’t think it’s fair but what’s fair and what will happen are two very different things. The scenario you mention has played out in past mergers in various ways. It won’t even be a consideration in merging the lists. The first thing that will happen is a constructive date of merger will be determined. Usually the day a public announcement of intent to merge is made by management. A snap shot of each seniority list will be taken on that date. Each list will then be stove piped showing what each pilot would hold if everyone bid the highest paying equipment. The arbitrator will work off those two lists. Who you worked for before and how you came to be on a list will not even be a factor that the arbitrator looks at.
05-21-2023, 09:04 AM
#2147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
ALl risk, no reward. If management wants to stem attrition, they're free to stack every new hire class with as many EDV pilots in whatever order they want above and beyond the current flow requirements. That would be WAY easier than opening up that can of worms.
05-21-2023, 09:25 AM
#2148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,373
Right now, yes. The milisecond there would be an actual "merger" though, that changes things and some would then sue for a different expectation based on the context of an actual merger.
ALl risk, no reward. If management wants to stem attrition, they're free to stack every new hire class with as many EDV pilots in whatever order they want above and beyond the current flow requirements. That would be WAY easier than opening up that can of worms.
ALl risk, no reward. If management wants to stem attrition, they're free to stack every new hire class with as many EDV pilots in whatever order they want above and beyond the current flow requirements. That would be WAY easier than opening up that can of worms.
05-21-2023, 06:17 PM
#2149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
A pilot who made 250k in eligible earnings will get 25% more profit sharing than a pilot with 200k in eligible earnings, sure. But compare the benefit of the one-time-payment being profit-sharing eligible to a theoretical contract in which is wasn't…and the boost isn’t as large. Making our ~third of the company payroll larger by including the one-time-payment in the PS math doesn’t add one extra dollar of actual profits to the pool. It just pulls a bit more of the existing pool in our direction.
05-21-2023, 06:28 PM
#2150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,558
I don’t think this will help us as much as folks think. Our income doesn’t GENERATE profit sharing, it just determines our personal share of the total pool. Since most pilots got the non-retro-retro (exceptions being newbies), everyone’s boost in annualized earnings moves more or less together. Of course our pilot share of total company-wide compensation goes up and we scrape a little more away from FAs et al, and that’s gravy.
A pilot who made 250k in eligible earnings will get 25% more profit sharing than a pilot with 200k in eligible earnings, sure. But compare the benefit of the one-time-payment being profit-sharing eligible to a theoretical contract in which is wasn't…and the boost isn’t as large. Making our ~third of the company payroll larger by including the one-time-payment in the PS math doesn’t add one extra dollar of actual profits to the pool. It just pulls a bit more of the existing pool in our direction.
A pilot who made 250k in eligible earnings will get 25% more profit sharing than a pilot with 200k in eligible earnings, sure. But compare the benefit of the one-time-payment being profit-sharing eligible to a theoretical contract in which is wasn't…and the boost isn’t as large. Making our ~third of the company payroll larger by including the one-time-payment in the PS math doesn’t add one extra dollar of actual profits to the pool. It just pulls a bit more of the existing pool in our direction.
But…….. as most are concerned with, X% of 2023 income + retro(not retro) = more than without.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
