Originally Posted by chrisreedrules

You guys are half-cocked and don’t have a clue. You can just call ALPA and ask questions
if you’re so concerned. This is a nothing-burger. IF Endeavor airplanes come to Delta mainline the only way the pilots come too is with a staple. There will be no integration. And there is already precedence for this (PanAm Express). Everyone on here without a clue acting like the wheel is trying to be reinvented here.

As Delta pilots we should be striving for ALL Delta flying to be flown by Delta pilots on a SINGLE seniority list. Whether that’s a 50-seat RJ or a 400+ seat ultra widebody that should be the goal.

Originally Posted by iaflyer

Why did the US Airways - Reno Air situation happen? I"m sure the lawyers "never thought of that".. and with everyone who challenges a pre-nuptial agreement... wasn't that a binding document? Challenges seem to happen often to high net worth people and the challengers seems to make out just fine. I think you're a bit naive if you think legal approval from the ALPA lawyers is the end-be-all of legal advice and other lawyers can't find their way around it if they think the payout is high enough.

Imagine this situation - took me all of 1 minute to come up with it.. and I'm not even a lawyer:

Delta brings on EDV pilots to the company, adds them to the bottom of the list (a staple) as per the "agreement" that DAL ALPA and EDV ALPA agree to.

The senior pilots complain, and say "we didn't agree to this!" and get a law firm to sue for "Right to fair representation" because there should of been a merged seniority list, and ALPA is ignoring the 2007 law that requires using Allegany-Mohawk which specifies: "insofar as the merger affects the seniority rights of the carriers’ employees, provisions shall be made for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner, including, where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining between the carriers and representatives of the employees affected."They also want DOH, as they have been part of Delta for years, making all of them senior enough to hold Captain on the next AE.

Discussions ensue...

An agreement is made, rather than it going to arbitration where the EDV pilots are ratioed in, starting at earliest EDV flow and eventually will hold their original EDV seniority, just not right away. Over time they can bid a certain number of Captain slots on AEs. ALPA says, "well, it's better than DOH, which is what they wanted, and they might of gotten had it gone to arbitration."

Not possible? I'd say it has a medium to high chance of actually happening if Delta does that.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

There are lots of posts here on how a merger would work between Endeavor and Delta. Everyone seems to ignore how it would actually happen. First ALPA has zero say in adding Endeavor pilots to the mainline list. It’s a management function. If management decides to merge the airlines it will be done via ALPA merger policy. That policy does allow for a pre nuptial agreement however the only way that would happen is if Delta management gave DALPA veto authority over the merger if a pre nup could not be negotiated. The chances of EB granting that to DALPA given the current relationship are between 0 and 0%. SW management granted that to their pilots in the SWA/Frontier attempted merger.
If management decides to merge the airlines a negotiated settlement would be attempted and of course fail. DALPA would want a staple and Endeavor would have zero reasons to accept that. It would then go to binding arbitration. The arbitrator is required to use ALPA merger policy. If you think that would result in a staple you will find yourself sadly mistaken. Here are the factors the arbitrator is required to use. “The new policy states that the factors that must be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list, in no particular order and with no particular weight, now include but are not limited to career expectations, longevity, and status and category.”
As far as Allegheny Mohawk it has zero relevance to a ALPA/ALPA merger.

Originally Posted by Fourpaw

Confirming the “retro not retro” will be considered as part as income for PS next year?

Originally Posted by Fourpaw

Confirming the “retro not retro” will be considered as part as income for PS next year?

Originally Posted by sailingfun

There are lots of posts here on how a merger would work between Endeavor and Delta. Everyone seems to ignore how it would actually happen. First ALPA has zero say in adding Endeavor pilots to the mainline list. It’s a management function. If management decides to merge the airlines it will be done via ALPA merger policy. That policy does allow for a pre nuptial agreement however the only way that would happen is if Delta management gave DALPA veto authority over the merger if a pre nup could not be negotiated. The chances of EB granting that to DALPA given the current relationship are between 0 and 0%. SW management granted that to their pilots in the SWA/Frontier attempted merger.
If management decides to merge the airlines a negotiated settlement would be attempted and of course fail. DALPA would want a staple and Endeavor would have zero reasons to accept that. It would then go to binding arbitration. The arbitrator is required to use ALPA merger policy. If you think that would result in a staple you will find yourself sadly mistaken. Here are the factors the arbitrator is required to use. “The new policy states that the factors that must be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list, in no particular order and with no particular weight, now include but are not limited to career expectations, longevity, and status and category.”
As far as Allegheny Mohawk it has zero relevance to a ALPA/ALPA merger.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

There are lots of posts here on how a merger would work between Endeavor and Delta. Everyone seems to ignore how it would actually happen. First ALPA has zero say in adding Endeavor pilots to the mainline list. It’s a management function. If management decides to merge the airlines it will be done via ALPA merger policy. That policy does allow for a pre nuptial agreement however the only way that would happen is if Delta management gave DALPA veto authority over the merger if a pre nup could not be negotiated. The chances of EB granting that to DALPA given the current relationship are between 0 and 0%. SW management granted that to their pilots in the SWA/Frontier attempted merger.
If management decides to merge the airlines a negotiated settlement would be attempted and of course fail. DALPA would want a staple and Endeavor would have zero reasons to accept that. It would then go to binding arbitration. The arbitrator is required to use ALPA merger policy. If you think that would result in a staple you will find yourself sadly mistaken. Here are the factors the arbitrator is required to use. “The new policy states that the factors that must be considered in constructing a fair and equitable integrated seniority list, in no particular order and with no particular weight, now include but are not limited to career expectations, longevity, and status and category.”
As far as Allegheny Mohawk it has zero relevance to a ALPA/ALPA merger.

Originally Posted by Tropical

First of all, you're retired, so maybe you could consider paring back your lectures to this pilot group.

Second of all, you used a lot of words to say "ALPA merger policy considers career expectations, longevity, and status and category". The CRJ900 is not currently flown at Delta and would come in below even the 717. The career expectations of a 30 year CRJ900 A wouldn't even come close to a Delta 717 A. The career expectations of a CR9 B wouldn't come close to a new hire Delta 350B. No arbitrated list in recent history has gone straight DOH, so it's unlikely they could use their 30 year RJ lifer status to tru*mp the other two.

You never know what an arbitrator will rule, but it is very likely that a staple with fences is the most fair integration under ALPA policy, and McCaskill-Bond may not even apply since we are not like carriers.

Finally, even Delta management would likely rather walk away than see some 30 year RJ guy end up as a Delta 330A and cause a downward cascade of training events. Simply ain't gonna happen. They'll pull the plug on 9E a la Comair before they'll let that happen.