Any "Latest & Greatest about Delta?" Part 2
05-15-2023, 07:16 AM
#2082
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
Why did the US Airways - Reno Air situation happen? I"m sure the lawyers "never thought of that".. and with everyone who challenges a pre-nuptial agreement... wasn't that a binding document? Challenges seem to happen often to high net worth people and the challengers seems to make out just fine. I think you're a bit naive if you think legal approval from the ALPA lawyers is the end-be-all of legal advice and other lawyers can't find their way around it if they think the payout is high enough.
Imagine this situation - took me all of 1 minute to come up with it.. and I'm not even a lawyer:
Delta brings on EDV pilots to the company, adds them to the bottom of the list (a staple) as per the "agreement" that DAL ALPA and EDV ALPA agree to.
The senior pilots complain, and say "we didn't agree to this!" and get a law firm to sue for "Right to fair representation" because there should of been a merged seniority list, and ALPA is ignoring the 2007 law that requires using Allegany-Mohawk which specifies: "insofar as the merger affects the seniority rights of the carriers’ employees, provisions shall be made for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner, including, where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining between the carriers and representatives of the employees affected."They also want DOH, as they have been part of Delta for years, making all of them senior enough to hold Captain on the next AE.
Discussions ensue...
An agreement is made, rather than it going to arbitration where the EDV pilots are ratioed in, starting at earliest EDV flow and eventually will hold their original EDV seniority, just not right away. Over time they can bid a certain number of Captain slots on AEs. ALPA says, "well, it's better than DOH, which is what they wanted, and they might of gotten had it gone to arbitration."
Not possible? I'd say it has a medium to high chance of actually happening if Delta does that.
Imagine this situation - took me all of 1 minute to come up with it.. and I'm not even a lawyer:
Delta brings on EDV pilots to the company, adds them to the bottom of the list (a staple) as per the "agreement" that DAL ALPA and EDV ALPA agree to.
The senior pilots complain, and say "we didn't agree to this!" and get a law firm to sue for "Right to fair representation" because there should of been a merged seniority list, and ALPA is ignoring the 2007 law that requires using Allegany-Mohawk which specifies: "insofar as the merger affects the seniority rights of the carriers’ employees, provisions shall be made for the integration of seniority lists in a fair and equitable manner, including, where applicable, agreement through collective bargaining between the carriers and representatives of the employees affected."They also want DOH, as they have been part of Delta for years, making all of them senior enough to hold Captain on the next AE.
Discussions ensue...
An agreement is made, rather than it going to arbitration where the EDV pilots are ratioed in, starting at earliest EDV flow and eventually will hold their original EDV seniority, just not right away. Over time they can bid a certain number of Captain slots on AEs. ALPA says, "well, it's better than DOH, which is what they wanted, and they might of gotten had it gone to arbitration."
Not possible? I'd say it has a medium to high chance of actually happening if Delta does that.
05-15-2023, 07:52 AM
#2083
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,383
A staple is probably going to happen at some point. Simply because the CRJ is no longer made, and it's cheaper to staple(which will actually be flowing everyone at once), rather than pay severance for an entire pilot group, while those pilots find other jobs at your competitors.
05-15-2023, 07:55 AM
#2084
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 4,601
You guys are half-cocked and don’t have a clue. You can just call ALPA and ask questions
if you’re so concerned. This is a nothing-burger. IF Endeavor airplanes come to Delta mainline the only way the pilots come too is with a staple. There will be no integration. And there is already precedence for this (PanAm Express). Everyone on here without a clue acting like the wheel is trying to be reinvented here.
As Delta pilots we should be striving for ALL Delta flying to be flown by Delta pilots on a SINGLE seniority list. Whether that’s a 50-seat RJ or a 400+ seat ultra widebody that should be the goal.
if you’re so concerned. This is a nothing-burger. IF Endeavor airplanes come to Delta mainline the only way the pilots come too is with a staple. There will be no integration. And there is already precedence for this (PanAm Express). Everyone on here without a clue acting like the wheel is trying to be reinvented here.
As Delta pilots we should be striving for ALL Delta flying to be flown by Delta pilots on a SINGLE seniority list. Whether that’s a 50-seat RJ or a 400+ seat ultra widebody that should be the goal.
05-15-2023, 08:31 AM
#2085
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Actually that makes me wonder, why add the CRJ costs if it isn’t made anymore? Wouldbt adding the E2 make more sense? E275 or E290/295. No scope limit, so you can jam more people in. I know there’s the 220, but a Rich Anderson deal on the struggling E2 would be very on brand.
05-15-2023, 08:40 AM
#2086
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I don't think it'll happen anyway.
How cool would it be to be the last young buck hot shot min time 24 year old seniority jumper hired off the street the day before the staple though!
05-15-2023, 08:41 AM
#2087
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,303
What are the new categories? A’s would still go above B’s. So you can have a CRJ A get above some B’s at Delta. If it goes to an arbitrator it is very likely CRJ A’s would get a huge windfall and end up above narrow body B’s at Delta.
05-15-2023, 08:51 AM
#2088
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,383
I get it, just thinking longer term. Would make more sense to bring the DL owned 175s in first, so at least it starts an Embraer program. CRJ is dead as a dodo. Embraer at least has a future.
05-15-2023, 09:10 AM
#2089
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,836
The easiest way to protect the senior 9E guys who might get ticked with a staple would be to give them super-seniority on the CRJ. So they get a Delta seniority number but at the time of integration any pre-integration DL pilot who bids CRJ CA would come in under them for monthly bidding, vacation bidding, etc. So they are not harmed because they get the exact same seniority on the CRJ that they have at 9E. And at any point if they wish to bid over to any other fleet at Delta then they lose their super-seniority and just exercise whatever their stapled seniority can hold.
05-15-2023, 01:54 PM
#2090
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 710
I am not too well versed in all this, so pardon my ignorance. I do understand how the "staple" concept would work, but how exactly do the other forms of integration work? If someone were hired shortly before the pandemic, how many EDV pilots could jump him/her if a "non-staple" situation occurred?
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