Contract 2022
05-30-2022, 03:59 AM
#1071
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,704
So, if the contract would have been one year shorter(amendable at end of 2018), do you think we would have gotten a deal in the 15 months prior to COVID? Based on what I remember about the adversarial relations and Company immediately applying for mediation, I don’t think so. And then we’d be 4 percent down from where we are now.
05-30-2022, 04:08 AM
#1072
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,704
Its been covered on here over and over again. Others have posted the same info I did. You can look through some of the sections where our ask did become public and the numbers line up. Just the vacation and scheduling sections would have required several thousand more pilots. DC plan alone was a basic 9% increase but when you apply the raises in pay plus all the extra vacation would have nearly doubled the payout.
05-30-2022, 06:25 AM
#1073
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 84
I've only been around since 2014, but it seems that the rejection of TA1 was a pretty significant shift in pilot/management relationships and mood. The consensus is that under the guise of "getting a deal done early" in 2015, the company was trying to rush through an inferior product. It was as if the company was "trying to pull a fast one" on us. We're still talking about it and many pilots have long memories.
I believe this was one of the biggest destructors of trust between this group and the company and was the beginning of the antagonistic back and forth we see today. I have many, many friends being hired in this cycle and I have to proactively apologize for the garbage they will experience and explain how just 6-7 years ago it was a much different mood around these parts. They are coming into a company with a vastly different level of morale than those of us did in 2014-2015.
UAL is firing on all cyclinders right now the way we were around 2014(at least from my vantage point. Could be different if you are there but from the outside it seems like they are coming out of COVID looking really good.)
A large significant part of this long term fraying is the shoot down of TA1.
It would be in the company and unions best interest not to send anything to the group that won't pass wholeheartedly.
I believe this was one of the biggest destructors of trust between this group and the company and was the beginning of the antagonistic back and forth we see today. I have many, many friends being hired in this cycle and I have to proactively apologize for the garbage they will experience and explain how just 6-7 years ago it was a much different mood around these parts. They are coming into a company with a vastly different level of morale than those of us did in 2014-2015.
UAL is firing on all cyclinders right now the way we were around 2014(at least from my vantage point. Could be different if you are there but from the outside it seems like they are coming out of COVID looking really good.)
A large significant part of this long term fraying is the shoot down of TA1.
It would be in the company and unions best interest not to send anything to the group that won't pass wholeheartedly.
05-30-2022, 09:16 AM
#1074
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Yeah OK. We totally should have timed the biggest black swan event in the history of the industry as well as its massively botched policy response and subsequent inflationary environment. I'm sure the company was chomping at the bit to give us a great contract on time with little to no concessions. The fact that they only closed 20M in improvements by the time things got bad, and to this day, during a recovery so massive our revenue opportunities are limited only by staffing, the fact that we're parked on peer parity DH improvements totally doesn't mean they were'nt ready to give us a billion or two had we not "asked" for 3. Sure.
05-30-2022, 09:53 AM
#1076
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,571
05-30-2022, 09:58 AM
#1077
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,192
As far as I know C2015 TA1 was the first time Delta pilots have voted down a contract. There was/is no guarantee a second offer has to be better than the first. In that case there were several events between the two TA’s that led to the second offer being considerably better (notably 100% retro, which to my knowledge had never been achieved before.)
I agree with the poster a few pages back that the company really shouldn’t try to gnat’s ass this round. They are teetering on the edge of a full blown operational meltdown and need to buy back some of the trust and goodwill that they’ve burned over the past few years. I don’t see them taking much ownership of the mess they have created, thus am not holding my breath.
05-30-2022, 10:28 AM
#1078
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,704
Historically you will generally find that when contracts are voted down the deck chairs are rearranged and the next contract does not add a lot of value. Events are the deciding factor along with the RLA pushing all like contracts into a fairly equal cost. Hence again why you want short timely contracts to drag everyone else up with you. Had we reached a TA at the amendable date on the current contract and voted it down we would have been crushed by covid. TA1 to TA2 events were very favorable. Profits were soaring, we had a new CEO who could not afford a labor war his first year and UAL pattern bargained off TA1 keeping us in the NMB’s zone of reasonableness for TA2. Still some of TA2 was moving deck chairs like the loss of 6 months of higher pay and the year extension.
05-30-2022, 10:46 AM
#1079
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,571
Historically you will generally find that when contracts are voted down the deck chairs are rearranged and the next contract does not add a lot of value. Events are the deciding factor along with the RLA pushing all like contracts into a fairly equal cost. Hence again why you want short timely contracts to drag everyone else up with you. Had we reached a TA at the amendable date on the current contract and voted it down we would have been crushed by covid. TA1 to TA2 events were very favorable. Profits were soaring, we had a new CEO who could not afford a labor war his first year and UAL pattern bargained off TA1 keeping us in the NMB’s zone of reasonableness for TA2. Still some of TA2 was moving deck chairs like the loss of 6 months of higher pay and the year extension.
05-30-2022, 11:01 AM
#1080
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,319
Its been covered on here over and over again. Others have posted the same info I did. You can look through some of the sections where our ask did become public and the numbers line up. Just the vacation and scheduling sections would have required several thousand more pilots. DC plan alone was a basic 9% increase but when you apply the raises in pay plus all the extra vacation would have nearly doubled the payout.
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