Originally Posted by FangsF15

I got a SC notification call at 0200 for a trip which reported at 0700. I did not get back to sleep quickly, and called fatigued at 0500. They now had to scramble to get someone there on time. That was 100% CS's fault for foolishly calling 5 hours before report needlessly. They never learn.

Don't be afraid to call fatigued, please. There are robust protections for you, and we should never feel pressure to make it work when the company is the one who is putting you in that situation in the first place.

Originally Posted by Trip7

Good call on your part. Just to play devils advocate if was a GS award call at 2am I wonder how many pilots are calling in fatigued if they can't get back to sleep quickly. Also, with the new extended duty pay, I wonder if there has been an increase in pilots extending.

Originally Posted by Trip7

Goodif was a GS award call at 2am I wonder how many pilots are calling in fatigued

Originally Posted by FangsF15

The MEC (or more accurately, a controlling group of reps on the MEC) saw the year-over-year recovered hours via ACE down somewhat dramatically. They felt it wasn’t worth what they were spending to “rent” the capability, and directed the MEC admin to either acquire it outright, or find another vendor from whom they could buy&own the software.

Initially, the company that developed ACE (and invested literally all of what they were paid back into improving ACE, and building out the backend of it, to include Auto-ID), they didn’t want to lose what they had built, and tried to negotiate. DH was having none of that, and IMO, suddenly ‘found’ an overbilling situation in a game of Russian roulette.

Note: the contract stipulated that ALPA would send monthly a list of the pilots, and would be billed on a per-user basis. The first contract with ACE was ~$5/pilot, and was renewed/raised to ~$7.50/pilot per month. Each month was therefore a slightly different amount. However, ALPA erroneously included some inactive, and or extra pilots in the list that they sent to ACE. But there was zero fault in ACE. They simply generated an invoice based on the rosters sent to them by ALPA itself. It’s that simple.

In typical shortsighted, and astonishingly shallow thinking, DALPA didn’t process the fact that the reason year-over-year recovered hours was down was precisely because ACE was working. It was only because ACE had its proverbial boot on the neck of management, that caused the company to stop violating the contract quite like they had been because it was costing them so darn much.

When an incredibly effective enforcement mechanism is removed, what did DALPA really think was going to happen? In the meantime, we are now nearly 2 years past the point where auto ID was ready for action. And there was much more in the hopper, being developed for offering an increased level of service to us pilots.

In the end, ACE was offered for sale to ALPA national for a total cost that was a fraction of what ALPA had been paying annually. And auto ID is still “somewhere” on the horizon. TBD. There are a lot of good people working the issue, but ultimately it was the (IMO) foolish decisions by DALPA leadership that lead us to where we are.

Originally Posted by Trip7

Just to play devils advocate if was a GS award call at 2am I wonder how many pilots are calling in fatigued if they can't get back to sleep quickly.

Originally Posted by TALPAtalker

I think there is a weaker argument in that case, because we have the option to Do Not Disturb for GS calls — not so on SC for obvious reasons.

Originally Posted by StartngOvr

Good grief. It’s short call, not an air raid siren. If reserve really has you that worried, it’s possible you made a poor career choice.

Originally Posted by Fly Casual

There is no argument to be had. It doesn't matter if it's GS or SC, if you're too fatigued to fly, don't.

Originally Posted by TALPAtalker

This is what I don't understand. They'll apply a 2359L-0859L SC period, and sometimes immediately assign a 0600L reporting trip within a few minutes after the SC is assigned. In one recent case, the 0600L reporting trip could have been assigned with a standard 18-hr callout. I will call them next time to see if I can have the SC removed in such a case, but I wanted to see how it would play out. The first day blocked in at 1500L, which is nearly the maximum 16-hour duty time permitted by the short call reserve regs.

Had I not opened MiCrew again after previously acknowledging the SC assignment, I would have presumably been getting a midnight call out for a 0600L report. I would imagine that this has got to be generating fatigue calls left and right. This instance did because cell service was intermittently down, and I wanted to check my schedule at midnight before going to bed.

Originally Posted by cencal83406

sorry I missed this…

you can’t get the short call removed… if they did the rotation is an illegal assignment. Look at 23M6b. If your SC is removed you’re not on SC status at time of report… so you’d not be the appropriate pilot/step of trip coverage for the rotation.