New Hire Class Drops
10-24-2022, 06:26 AM
#3111
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 37
Couple of notes on this,
I think something that escapes people that have never worked under our reserve rules is the loss of schedule flexibility that comes with the fact that the 7ER requires a long call reserve block of no less than 4 days. It’s 3 days on the rest of the narrowbodies. It’s hard to move X days around when you can’t have 3 day blocks.
Next, if and when movement slows down, the small narrowbody people will bid in over you on the 7ER. This is less likely on the 737 and 320. It’s less of an issue right now because they are just going to go to the 330/350 when their seat locks end.
7ER NYC is on a different planet from 7ER ATL. I didn’t realize this until I had people I mentored in both categories.
I think something that escapes people that have never worked under our reserve rules is the loss of schedule flexibility that comes with the fact that the 7ER requires a long call reserve block of no less than 4 days. It’s 3 days on the rest of the narrowbodies. It’s hard to move X days around when you can’t have 3 day blocks.
Next, if and when movement slows down, the small narrowbody people will bid in over you on the 7ER. This is less likely on the 737 and 320. It’s less of an issue right now because they are just going to go to the 330/350 when their seat locks end.
7ER NYC is on a different planet from 7ER ATL. I didn’t realize this until I had people I mentored in both categories.
10-24-2022, 06:36 AM
#3112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,891
Yeah, I mean as cool as I think it would be to fly the 757, I’d happily take the 737 if the QOL is better, or the seniority board is more fluid. I know with delta eventually taking orders of those 73’s would in theory make moving up the list a little quicker. But if it’s a negligible difference, then I see no reason not to do the 7ER.
Also, PSC about to sunset, there will be lots of filled JS's starting in November that have been largely vacant in the last few years. Do you want the 737's JSers knees in your side for 5 hrs?
Lastly, you predominately DH on the same equipment as you are flying. Do you want to do many 737 DH's?
Just some anthropometric considerations.
10-24-2022, 06:56 AM
#3113
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 37
Are you a short or tall pilot? Over 6' it's a no brainer 757 bid just in cockpit comfort considerations.
Also, PSC about to sunset, there will be lots of filled JS's starting in November that have been largely vacant in the last few years. Do you want the 737's JSers knees in your side for 5 hrs?
Lastly, you predominately DH on the same equipment as you are flying. Do you want to do many 737 DH's?
Just some anthropometric considerations.
Also, PSC about to sunset, there will be lots of filled JS's starting in November that have been largely vacant in the last few years. Do you want the 737's JSers knees in your side for 5 hrs?
Lastly, you predominately DH on the same equipment as you are flying. Do you want to do many 737 DH's?
Just some anthropometric considerations.
10-24-2022, 07:08 AM
#3114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,891
So out of ATL, you would say the 737/320 is easier to break up days than the 7ER? I’ve heard the same about the NYC 7ER, but zero chance I’m commuting up there when I can drive to ATL. It seems like anything in the beginning will probably suck a little bit, but kinda thinking the 73 might not suck the longest when compared to the 7ER.
(As a public service to newer guys, this rule does not apply to PBS bidding at the beginning or end of the month or when touching training.)
IDK, moving reserve days is already tough due to manning constraints unless your trying to move a Tuesday to a Wednesday etc.
Some people like the strategy of just putting all your reserve days together anyway as it forces the company to at least give you a free 30hr rest every 7 days.
Personally, I often like bidding weekday reserve vs a line over the weekends as I get better or no trips vs guaranteed weekend flying.
Some ATL pilots bid/fly mostly high credit/block island turns with few RON's. Their schedule would make a commuter cringe.
There really are as many strategies as there are pilots because what is valuable to some, is poison to others.
The 757/67 has maybe another decade left in it, the 737 will be here when you retire.
10-24-2022, 07:52 AM
#3115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,454
There really is no standard for schedules. Too many variables. Seniority being number 1. The only constants are change and the optimizer pushing max duty day for no credit which results in min layovers. This is true on both fleets domestically anyway.
10-24-2022, 07:58 AM
#3116
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,806
I think what he is alluding to is that on the 737/320 you only need to be "on call" in 3day blocks so it can be easier to take days and move them (presuming there is adequate manning) then on the 757/767 where you have to leave "on call" days in 4 day blocks.
(As a public service to newer guys, this rule does not apply to PBS bidding at the beginning or end of the month or when touching training.)
IDK, moving reserve days is already tough due to manning constraints unless your trying to move a Tuesday to a Wednesday etc.
Some people like the strategy of just putting all your reserve days together anyway as it forces the company to at least give you a free 30hr rest every 7 days.
....
(As a public service to newer guys, this rule does not apply to PBS bidding at the beginning or end of the month or when touching training.)
IDK, moving reserve days is already tough due to manning constraints unless your trying to move a Tuesday to a Wednesday etc.
Some people like the strategy of just putting all your reserve days together anyway as it forces the company to at least give you a free 30hr rest every 7 days.
....
Also a PSA...the 7ER with the 4-day blocks counts toward the personal drop rules for WB categories. So if you're like me and don't mind losing pay by PDing reserve days here and there, this is a huge deal. On a NB, I can bid a 3 day block of reserve and drop the middle day as long as coverage is there. On an WB fleet, it's not automatic to drop below a 4 day block (or MSL if the category has it), as the company "may deny it." I tried multiple times on the 330 and don't believe I ever had it approved.
10-24-2022, 08:05 AM
#3117
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,835
I think what he is alluding to is that on the 737/320 you only need to be "on call" in 3day blocks so it can be easier to take days and move them (presuming there is adequate manning) then on the 757/767 where you have to leave "on call" days in 4 day blocks.
(As a public service to newer guys, this rule does not apply to PBS bidding at the beginning or end of the month or when touching training.)
IDK, moving reserve days is already tough due to manning constraints unless your trying to move a Tuesday to a Wednesday etc.
Some people like the strategy of just putting all your reserve days together anyway as it forces the company to at least give you a free 30hr rest every 7 days.
Personally, I often like bidding weekday reserve vs a line over the weekends as I get better or no trips vs guaranteed weekend flying.
Some ATL pilots bid/fly mostly high credit/block island turns with few RON's. Their schedule would make a commuter cringe.
There really are as many strategies as there are pilots because what is valuable to some, is poison to others.
The 757/67 has maybe another decade left in it, the 737 will be here when you retire.
(As a public service to newer guys, this rule does not apply to PBS bidding at the beginning or end of the month or when touching training.)
IDK, moving reserve days is already tough due to manning constraints unless your trying to move a Tuesday to a Wednesday etc.
Some people like the strategy of just putting all your reserve days together anyway as it forces the company to at least give you a free 30hr rest every 7 days.
Personally, I often like bidding weekday reserve vs a line over the weekends as I get better or no trips vs guaranteed weekend flying.
Some ATL pilots bid/fly mostly high credit/block island turns with few RON's. Their schedule would make a commuter cringe.
There really are as many strategies as there are pilots because what is valuable to some, is poison to others.
The 757/67 has maybe another decade left in it, the 737 will be here when you retire.
10-24-2022, 08:23 AM
#3118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,454
Minor point of clarification: yes, at the end of a month when you are bidding for reserve you can have less than the required number of LC days (3 or 4 depending on your fleet), but when the next month rolls around PBS will force you (if you bid reserve again) to add as many LC days in the following bid period to bring you up to the required number of days. So you can’t be off Nov 29, bid one LC day on Nov 30th, AND get PBS to give you Dec 1 off if you bid reserve in December. If you go from reserve to regular you are allowed to “strand” those day(s) at the end of the prior bid period. Also I think if you have a regular line trip that either ends on the last day of the bid period or carries into the following bid period those trip days are looked at like they are LC days for following the 3 or 4 day length rule.
10-24-2022, 09:08 AM
#3119
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,835
That is a possible outcome too. That step falls farther down the coverage ladder but it can bite people from time to time. If they bump a regular trip you’re pay protected, correct?
10-24-2022, 09:22 AM
#3120
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,802
Minor point of clarification: yes, at the end of a month when you are bidding for reserve you can have less than the required number of LC days (3 or 4 depending on your fleet), but when the next month rolls around PBS will force you (if you bid reserve again) to add as many LC days in the following bid period to bring you up to the required number of days. So you can’t be off Nov 29, bid one LC day on Nov 30th, AND get PBS to give you Dec 1 off if you bid reserve in December. If you go from reserve to regular you are allowed to “strand” those day(s) at the end of the prior bid period. Also I think if you have a regular line trip that either ends on the last day of the bid period or carries into the following bid period those trip days are looked at like they are LC days for following the 3 or 4 day length rule.
What you may be thinking of is IF you have a single day of reserve on the last day of the prior bid period, AND you do not have an X day on the first day of the subsequent bid period, PBS will force compliance with the 3-99-5 or 4-99-4 rules. BUT, you absolutely can bid an x-day on the first after a single LC day on the 30th.
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