Easter Meltdown
04-04-2021, 08:02 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,258
I would argue that this has nothing to do with holiday pay. UAL found a way to displace folks and retire others smartly, and also kept everyone current via reduced monthly schedules. Meanwhile our brain trust was playing the "what's a SIL" game and had 1700+ pilots quit flying cold turkey. I wonder why they don't have enough pilots to fly the schedule. Hmmmm.....
Not picking on you specifically....just remember the hew and cry here and over there at the time, now we hold them up as "utopia". Utopia....dystopia.....sound alike....maybe it's a matter of perspective ....or quite possibly time is relative?
04-04-2021, 08:07 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 73N
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers;[url=tel:3216532
3216532[/url]]Re UAL....weren't most posters here saying the UAL LOA was an abomination and divisive and destroyed their pilot group? Was gonna harm all ALPA unions?
Not picking on you specifically....just remember the hew and cry here and over there at the time, now we hold them up as "utopia". Utopia....dystopia.....sound alike....maybe it's a matter of perspective ....or quite possibly time is relative?
Not picking on you specifically....just remember the hew and cry here and over there at the time, now we hold them up as "utopia". Utopia....dystopia.....sound alike....maybe it's a matter of perspective ....or quite possibly time is relative?
04-04-2021, 08:11 AM
#65
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: 3+ hour sit in the ATL
Posts: 1,982
04-04-2021, 08:16 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 73N
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by notEnuf;[url=tel:3216538
3216538[/url]]The UAL deal worked because the .gov paid full salaries. Ours didn't work because of the MOAD and UNA usage. They got lucky, we were caught being overly cautious.
04-04-2021, 08:31 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,258
Yes....and they divided their group into thirds. The top third took a 10% ALV cut, the middle third a 20% ALV cut and the bottom third a 50% cut all in an attempt to eliminate furloughs(lots of other moving parts in there) But still, I stand by the assertion that most Delta posters opining about their deal were uniformly negative and expressed a sentiment of "UAL sold us (Delta) down the river".
When does reading the tea leaves properly constitute being astute and when does it just become "luck"?
04-04-2021, 08:37 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,418
Yes....and they divided their group into thirds. The top third took a 10% ALV cut, the middle third a 20% ALV cut and the bottom third a 50% cut all in an attempt to eliminate furloughs(lots of other moving parts in there) But still, I stand by the assertion that most Delta posters opining about their deal were uniformly negative and expressed a sentiment of "UAL sold us (Delta) down the river".
When does reading the tea leaves properly constitute being astute and when does it just become "luck"?
When does reading the tea leaves properly constitute being astute and when does it just become "luck"?
I personally think splitting UAL into thirds was divisive...I know my UAL counterparts felt it was when they found out they were taking a much larger cut than the top third was.
Could UAL have achieved the same 'everyone remains current' objective with straight SIL's and VLOAs? I don't know...my magic 8 ball broke a while ago.
However, Delta appeared to be more concerned with optics and unions, so they MOAD'd before they VEOP'd and they didn't SIL...I would guess maintaining pilot currency for the recovery wasn't even in Delta's top 5 objectives.
Last edited by DWC CAP10 USAF; 04-04-2021 at 09:13 AM.
04-04-2021, 08:39 AM
#69
Has a furrowed brow
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,209
Let’s not fall over the UA agreement as if it were some sort of amazing deal for the pilots. It was a B scale (and a C scale) for all intents and purposes. Had the gov cheese not come in, their deal would’ve looked a lot worse than ours. Both companies/unions gambled, UA won this round.
Now, that doesn’t mean Delta should continue to double down on their problem. There is a solution...come to the union with concessions to US for relief. Will it happen? Of course not. Ed and JL are too prideful for that.
I will say, I won’t be shocked if JL is thrown under the proverbial (air)bus for Meltdown III: Easter Drift and is canned by Ed.
Now, that doesn’t mean Delta should continue to double down on their problem. There is a solution...come to the union with concessions to US for relief. Will it happen? Of course not. Ed and JL are too prideful for that.
I will say, I won’t be shocked if JL is thrown under the proverbial (air)bus for Meltdown III: Easter Drift and is canned by Ed.
04-04-2021, 08:59 AM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 73N
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF;[url=tel:3216552
3216552[/url]]I think the main point is not "how" they (UAL) did it, but they fact they prioritized keeping everyone current.
I personally think splitting UAL into thirds was divisive...I know my UAL counterparts felt it was when they found out they were taking a much larger cut than the top third was.
Could UAL have achieved the same 'everyone remains current' objective with straight SIL's and VLOAs? I don't know...my magic 8 ball broke a while ago.
However, Delta appeared to be more concerned with optics and unions, so they MOAD'd before they VEOP's and they didn't SIL...I would guess maintaining pilot currency for the recovery wasn't even in Delta's top 5 objectives.
I personally think splitting UAL into thirds was divisive...I know my UAL counterparts felt it was when they found out they were taking a much larger cut than the top third was.
Could UAL have achieved the same 'everyone remains current' objective with straight SIL's and VLOAs? I don't know...my magic 8 ball broke a while ago.
However, Delta appeared to be more concerned with optics and unions, so they MOAD'd before they VEOP's and they didn't SIL...I would guess maintaining pilot currency for the recovery wasn't even in Delta's top 5 objectives.
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