lake

So 18 777's gone, VEOP, displacements, advanced entitlements and rookie management. Any clue as to what the low end seniority it will take to hold wide body captain in this AE?
Inquiring minds would like to know.

sailingfun

The 777 pilots were displaced on the prior bid.

lake

Dah, we all know that.. if you read the question again even you might realize that is not what I was asking...

Xray678

Working off the May projected list and seniority.....I think it will take 4000 to hold the ER in ATL.

hockeypilot44

As first officer? Is if that bad?

Rooster435

I think the problem is going to be that most of the openings are going to go to reinstatement’s. You might technically have the seniority to hold it but the openings will be filled by reinstatement’s.

hvydvr

This right here. There will be a flood of reinstatements back up that will put the squeeze on any AE moves. If you didn't keep or get what you wanted on the MOAD, the majority of moves will be guys holding an MD reinstating. Gotta be honest, from a management viewpoint, it's a brilliant move. Create max FUD with the MOAD to include massively restructuring the entire company's footprint in one swoop. Convince a lot of senior guys to depart early. Publish an AE with the holes covering the VEOP knowing that displacements will cover the holes largely training free (recurrent or short course).

The MDs who have no category to return to (777, 88, ER base closures, etc) are going to be mightily ****ed as they watch junior reinstatements flow into categories now desirable based on the VEOP while they attempt to AE in. This is a mess.

hockeypilot44

The MD's should be furious. The union should be filing a grievance. It is a massive violation of seniority.

hvydvr

That's why it's a mess. Should the union file a grievance for the senior guys who can't reinstate or the junior guys with a clearly delineated reinstatement process in the PWA? Even the word "category" is clearly defined as position AND base. "Seniority" is only enforceable through our PWA. I think the union is stuck right in the middle on this one.

MoonShot

Personally, I’m extremely unhappy with the situation. That said, it’s complying with the PWA, so outside an LOA, what leg do we have to stand on? I communicated to my reps that any ALV LOA that doesn’t provide the pilots of the closed categories an opportunity to rebid, probably won’t get my vote.

The PWA wasn’t written for a situation like this. For those saying that pilots in the closed categories “gambled and lost”, GMAB. No one gambled anything. The MOAD was a paper bid to move people down ASAP now three months later they’re adding 1500 captains back from the VEOP. Many of us in the closed categories were quite content with our old positions. Anyone who says that they saw complete category closures of things like ATL777, SLC7ER, DTW7ER, etc... in the near future is being dishonest. None of those categories were anywhere close to closing outright in January.

Many of the reinstatement’s won’t even have ever left their categories.