m3113n1a1

Exactly. Just because it sucks for the guys in closed categories, doesn't mean you can usurp the contract and make it suck for other guys instead.

FangsF15

Look, let’s just see this for what it is. Under the current AE, a maximum number of people will be able to be reinstated, thus relieving the company of the expense and time to train them (I’m most cases, where you haven’t been trained yet).

If they cancelled the MOAD (to benefit group A), and rebid it now, a much higher number of training events would be generated. Then, the only closed category pilots not needing training would be the few 717 or ER pilots who would have simply changed bases.

THAT is the real reason they chose to make it suck for group A, rather than group B pilots. Pragmatism.

captkdobbs

I got HOSED on the MOAD (that should be a T-shirt; thanks Plaintrain.) as well! I have no category to be reinstated.

I don't like the fact that junior guys will most likely get reinstated to categories that I'm bidding, but I'd rather take the hit now (and hold onto my anger at management for the s@r3w job) knowing that the current contract language was adhered to.

My question for future (current) section 6 negotiations is can/should the language be modified? How can we protect future pilots from the current machinations/manipulations by management?

ERflyer

Manipulated? They were following it precisely they way they should have. You want to cherry pick the part of the PWA you don’t like and rewrite it to your benefit.

The company’s response: “A contract’s a contract.” There will be no additional MD rights for 777 or 88 pilots, canceled bid, rebid, etc. They are moving full speed ahead with whatever their plan is.

Xray678

captain. FO I would guess about 11k.

Gone Flying

are you saying 4K/11k off the pre VEOP list or the Post?
11K on the post is only a couple numbers from furlough

Xray678

post VEOP. I say that because there will be some very junior people with reinstatement rights.

TED74

Perfect! We can restart the debate about what "can hold" means, because I'm not sure APC ever settled that question. Ahhh, the good old days before masks and COVID debates.

Gone Flying

I thought UNAs didn’t have reinstatement rights? Most jr non UNA is 10410 next month.

but yeah I see what you are saying

FL370esq

Not sure that is the issue. No matter how senior you are, even the #1 pilot on the seniority list cannot AE into a category without a posted vacancy. Reinstatements come in to play when the Company has prematurely displaced a pilot from a category then decides it needs to add that position back (within a defined period of time). In essence, there is no vacancy to be had for the senior AE pilot because that "vacancy" was actually created by an over-displacement. But for the MD, there would not have been a vacancy for the senior pilot to bid on.

Normally, I would agree that the contract worked as advertised but I think this AE is unlike any other we have had...in the last 20 years anyway. We had a MOAD which closed numerous categories and things fell out as they would under the terms of our PWA. Then, after the MOAD was published, the Company provided a program to incentivize pilots to leave...and 1,800 will do so. Now the Company is publishing an AE to fill many of those VEOP vacancies which will result in reinstatements for many pilots. If the Company had run the VEOP prior to the MOAD, this issue would be less exacerbated as those vacancies would have subsequently been factored in to the MOAD.

In the end, those senior pilots who displaced from closed categories got what they "wanted" for a displacement bid and the uber-junior pilots got what they could hold. A re-bid won't change their results. However, there is a demographic that likely could have gone somewhere more senior had the current "vacancies" been factored in. The issue becomes how would you do that and I don't think Delta technology has the power to address that issue. Do you put everyone back into their pre-MOAD position and re-run their final May preferences with the current vacancies factored in? MDs are supposed to convert from the bottom (except for those who checked the "convert before" box) so, in theory, those already converted were going to their new category anyway and those who AE'd went where they wanted so they aren't an issue.

Overall....this is a mess brought on by JL, RG and BS. Unfortunately, I think this mess is one that we are stuck with.