Wide body seniority in ATL
08-25-2020, 06:16 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 193
Have you seen the two page flowchart that is used to correctly process an AE? It is already a very complex process with many steps, and considering the company can (and does) run it many times, with no obligation to fill any posted vacancy, your suggestion just adds more complexity to an already dense process.
Unless I'm missing something (entirely possible), the only way to "cure" the angst is either
a. The company delays any AE for months in order for the six month reinstatement window to expire. Given how many are retiring Sept 1 that's not happening.
b. The union negotiates language that disallows reinstatement rights for this AE. But you are just shifting the sh!t sandwich to a different group of guys, who will be quite upset. I don't think we need to go there.
Unless I'm missing something (entirely possible), the only way to "cure" the angst is either
a. The company delays any AE for months in order for the six month reinstatement window to expire. Given how many are retiring Sept 1 that's not happening.
b. The union negotiates language that disallows reinstatement rights for this AE. But you are just shifting the sh!t sandwich to a different group of guys, who will be quite upset. I don't think we need to go there.
08-25-2020, 06:24 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,431
I just think the "least bad" answer is to run this course with the language as written. If we changed the language, there'll be a whole bunch of guys ready with pitchforks and torches.
Most importantly, the union should remind the pilot group how cynically the company is toying with us, even if it is "legal."
08-25-2020, 06:28 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 193
I feel for those getting the raw end of this. But the language is the language. As always I support the will of the group. I also admit it's easy for me to take any view, since I didn't get displaced on the MOAD.
I just think the "least bad" answer is to run this course with the language as written. If we changed the language, there'll be a whole bunch of guys ready with pitchforks and torches.
Most importantly, the union should remind the pilot group how cynically the company is toying with us, even if it is "legal."
I just think the "least bad" answer is to run this course with the language as written. If we changed the language, there'll be a whole bunch of guys ready with pitchforks and torches.
Most importantly, the union should remind the pilot group how cynically the company is toying with us, even if it is "legal."
08-25-2020, 06:53 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,431
That's where we are. Contact your reps. My guess is that they are getting bombarded from ALL sides of this discussion.
08-25-2020, 07:10 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: Fetal
Posts: 1,148
As someone who got pushed out of a closed category, I can attest that this situation is not good to say the least. It is contract compliant, however, so we don’t have a leg to stand on. All we can do is remember how the company handled this situation when they come around asking for more from us.
08-25-2020, 08:50 AM
#28
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,815
Have you seen the two page flowchart that is used to correctly process an AE? It is already a very complex process with many steps, and considering the company can (and does) run it many times, with no obligation to fill any posted vacancy, your suggestion just adds more complexity to an already dense process.
Unless I'm missing something (entirely possible), the only way to "cure" the angst is either
a. The company delays any AE for months in order for the six month reinstatement window to expire. Given how many are retiring Sept 1 that's not happening.
b. The union negotiates language that disallows reinstatement rights for this AE. But you are just shifting the sh!t sandwich to a different group of guys, who will be quite upset. I don't think we need to go there.
Unless I'm missing something (entirely possible), the only way to "cure" the angst is either
a. The company delays any AE for months in order for the six month reinstatement window to expire. Given how many are retiring Sept 1 that's not happening.
b. The union negotiates language that disallows reinstatement rights for this AE. But you are just shifting the sh!t sandwich to a different group of guys, who will be quite upset. I don't think we need to go there.
But it won't happen. Place any anger where it belongs, which is neither a fellow pilot, nor ALPA for failing to foresee a once-in-a-lifetime event.
08-25-2020, 10:04 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,016
Personally, I’m extremely unhappy with the situation. That said, it’s complying with the PWA, so outside an LOA, what leg do we have to stand on? I communicated to my reps that any ALV LOA that doesn’t provide the pilots of the closed categories an opportunity to rebid, probably won’t get my vote.
The PWA wasn’t written for a situation like this. For those saying that pilots in the closed categories “gambled and lost”, GMAB. No one gambled anything. The MOAD was a paper bid to move people down ASAP now three months later they’re adding 1500 captains back from the VEOP. Many of us in the closed categories were quite content with our old positions. Anyone who says that they saw complete category closures of things like ATL777, SLC7ER, DTW7ER, etc... in the near future is being dishonest. None of those categories were anywhere close to closing outright in January.
Many of the reinstatement’s won’t even have ever left their categories.
The PWA wasn’t written for a situation like this. For those saying that pilots in the closed categories “gambled and lost”, GMAB. No one gambled anything. The MOAD was a paper bid to move people down ASAP now three months later they’re adding 1500 captains back from the VEOP. Many of us in the closed categories were quite content with our old positions. Anyone who says that they saw complete category closures of things like ATL777, SLC7ER, DTW7ER, etc... in the near future is being dishonest. None of those categories were anywhere close to closing outright in January.
Many of the reinstatement’s won’t even have ever left their categories.
The -88, 777, and any pilots from a closed category are being railroaded. This is an easy fix. Give those pilots an MD equivalent bid this AE if they want it.
Last edited by hockeypilot44; 08-25-2020 at 10:34 AM.
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