Flying Monkey

Anyone have a handle on flight attendant duty day limits. Let’s say, they have a lean over, but the am flight has a maintenance issue. We’re delayed because of maintenance, but the flight attendants (two of the three) say they can’t and walk. Asking them about their duty day I get three different answers. But now they’re jumpseating on a later flight anyway. And we’re delayed further waiting for more flight attendants.

To be clear I don’t want them pushing me to fly and I’m not doing that here. I just want a better understanding of what their duty limits are.

freezingflyboy

What's the contract say?

Sorry, that's just my snarky pro union remark whenever a flight attendant complains about the company's scheduling practices. In all seriousness, I believe they are only limited by needing 8 hours rest in a 24 hour period. So if they duty on at say 2100LT last night, they can go until 1300LT today.

Anecdotally, I've been in a situation where our 11pm redeye departure was delayed until nearly 4am. The FAs were doing the turnaround and were still good for it (but not looking good after it!)

Flying Monkey

Ok thanks. I’m just not understanding how one was able to do it but the other two ‘couldn’t’.

symbian simian

(1) Except as provided in paragraphs (b)(4), (b)(5), and (b)(6) of this section, no certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled duty period of more than 14 hours.

(2) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(3) of this section, a flight attendant scheduled to a duty period of 14 hours or less as provided under paragraph (b)(1) of this section must be given a scheduled rest period of at least 9 consecutive hours. This rest period must occur between the completion of the scheduled duty period and the commencement of the subsequent duty period.

(3) The rest period required under paragraph (b)(2) of this section may be scheduled or reduced to 8 consecutive hours if the flight attendant is provided a subsequent rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours; this subsequent rest period must be scheduled to begin no later than 24 hours after the beginning of the reduced rest period and must occur between the completion of the scheduled duty period and the commencement of the subsequent duty period.

(4) A certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled duty period of more than 14 hours, but no more than 16 hours, if the certificate holder has assigned to the flight or flights in that duty period at least one flight attendant in addition to the minimum flight attendant complement required for the flight or flights in that duty period under the certificate holder's operations specifications.

(5) A certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled duty period of more than 16 hours, but no more than 18 hours, if the certificate holder has assigned to the flight or flights in that duty period at least two flight attendants in addition to the minimum flight attendant complement required for the flight or flights in that duty period under the certificate holder's operations specifications.

(6) A certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled duty period of more than 18 hours, but no more than 20 hours, if the scheduled duty period includes one or more flights that land or take off outside the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia, and if the certificate holder has assigned to the flight or flights in that duty period at least three flight attendants in addition to the minimum flight attendant complement required for the flight or flights in that duty period under the domestic certificate holder's operations specifications.

(7) Except as provided in paragraph (b)(8) of this section, a flight attendant scheduled to a duty period of more than 14 hours but no more than 20 hours, as provided in paragraphs (b)(4), (b)(5), and (b)(6) of this section, must be given a scheduled rest period of at least 12 consecutive hours. This rest period must occur between the completion of the scheduled duty period and the commencement of the subsequent duty period.

(8) The rest period required under paragraph (b)(7) of this section may be scheduled or reduced to 10 consecutive hours if the flight attendant is provided a subsequent rest period of at least 14 consecutive hours; this subsequent rest period must be scheduled to begin no later than 24 hours after the beginning of the reduced rest period and must occur between the completion of the scheduled duty period and the commencement of the subsequent duty period.

(9) Notwithstanding paragraphs (b)(4), (b)(5), and (b)(6) of this section, if a certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations elects to reduce the rest period to 10 hours as authorized by paragraph (b)(8) of this section, the certificate holder may not schedule a flight attendant for a duty period of more than 14 hours during the 24-hour period commencing after the beginning of the reduced rest period.

Flying Monkey

Perfect. Thanks.

symbian simian

Just a thought, the rules for pilots have language like:
“ Except as provided for in § 117.15, no certificate holder may assign and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment ”

In the FA rules posted above it only says:
“ certificate holder conducting domestic, flag, or supplemental operations may assign a flight attendant to a scheduled”

It sounds like FAs can always accept an assignment, even though it should not be assigned.....

DALMD88FO

Well there is the FAA and there is Delta rules. The key to all this is the term "scheduled". A delay, diversion or stubout do not constitute a reschedule of their schedule so it reverts to 15 hours max or whatever their duty day limit was plus two hours whichever is greater. You can find the FA work rules on the IFS side of Deltanet. I don't want to cut and paste as that would violate Delta policy. The other thing you need to take into account is that there is a union card drive going on right now so the company is probably a little more easy going right now on the FA's.

FmrFreightDog

I've run into this a few times with MX delays coming off a 30 hr. layover. FAs are almost always on a lean-over and start worrying about duty time (PWM is one that comes up often because it's a long flight paired with a fairly long lean-over).

Maybe I'm just a lazy Captain, but I try my best to stay out of it. Their rules are between them and their schedulers and seem to have more flexibility built in than I care to keep track of. I usually just ask for an hour heads up of when they plan to walk.

bugman61

The flight attendant work rules are available on deltanet. There is a quick reference chart that summarizes their option off points. It varies based on the type of operation.

Han Solo

I’m with you. I have zero tolerance for any person in the company questioning my fitness for duty (one way or the other), what kind of hypocrite would I be if I had an input on that of a fellow crew member. My name is Paul, and this is between y’all.