*MINIMUM BALANCES* New Polling Needed
01-02-2020, 07:27 AM
#221
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,028
PMore empty threats. I'm perfectly content with how I handle myself. I'm not the one trying to take an unfair amount of money away from my fellow pilots via the PWA.
Only karma coming is you guys retiring without seeing a cent more than our current PWA pays. Working those extra 5 years at the top of the seniority list was at our expense. We're not in a giving mood. You guys have had enough. You guys are selfish. Not us. We want equal gains across the board. This proposal is brought to you by some of the same pilots who brought the original B scale.
Only karma coming is you guys retiring without seeing a cent more than our current PWA pays. Working those extra 5 years at the top of the seniority list was at our expense. We're not in a giving mood. You guys have had enough. You guys are selfish. Not us. We want equal gains across the board. This proposal is brought to you by some of the same pilots who brought the original B scale.
Last edited by tomgoodman; 01-02-2020 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Foul language
01-02-2020, 07:30 AM
#222
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Denny
01-02-2020, 07:35 AM
#223
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 320A
Posts: 913
The real question is will the IRS approve it? It would be hilarious/terrible for us to spend so much negotiating capital for it, and it not be approved with the irs. It's one thing to negotiate for something that is already gov approved, but going after something that might not be allowed seems super risky. With current irs rules no one gets anything and DAL gets a much less expensive PWA.
Last edited by Der Meister; 01-02-2020 at 07:59 AM.
01-02-2020, 07:36 AM
#224
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Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 314
Let's be clear here. I in NO WAY am advocating a DB plan. What gave you that idea? Wow...I am (for the last 31 years) fully invested in the stock market. I've put 10% of my earnings either in an IRA, Roth IRA or 401k every year since I was 22.
01-02-2020, 07:40 AM
#227
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,028
For unions actually trying to negotiate a deal, this is unprecedented. It's called negotiating in public.
01-02-2020, 07:54 AM
#228
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
The real question is will the IRS approve it? It would be hilarious/terrible for us to spend so much negotiating capital for it, and it have it be approved. It's one thing to negotiate for something that is already gov approved, but going after something that might not be allowed seems super risky. With current irs rules no one gets anything and DAL gets a much less expensive PWA.
Denny
01-02-2020, 07:59 AM
#229
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,237
The DZ accrued 2.4 % per year.....in my case I had earned a 48% DB retirement and then viola...presto chango....it was worth zip.....other remedies had to be enacted to try to make up for that. These went pie in the sky promises but actual accrued $$$
Additionally...everybody on the property and future hires got the benefit of the 65 age....unless you choose not to or medical out
01-02-2020, 08:11 AM
#230
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Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,765
Good post. Both points of view on this issue make valid points:
DZ POV: We did indeed get screwed and now that DAL is making record profits our retirement should be addressed.
Younger guy POV: It has been almost 15 years since the pension was cancelled, you had plenty of time to prepare for it financially.
As posted above we need a lot more details on the proposed plan. My biggest issue with this whole debate is that it is a very small portion of the whole section 6 and it appears to be driving a wedge between the Pilot group. Maybe since it is the only section with any details it’s impact is being magnified. As a 56 YO NB Captain I am far more interested in other portions of the contract.
Full disclosure: I have a MIL reserve retirement that starts paying at 60.
Scoop
DZ POV: We did indeed get screwed and now that DAL is making record profits our retirement should be addressed.
Younger guy POV: It has been almost 15 years since the pension was cancelled, you had plenty of time to prepare for it financially.
As posted above we need a lot more details on the proposed plan. My biggest issue with this whole debate is that it is a very small portion of the whole section 6 and it appears to be driving a wedge between the Pilot group. Maybe since it is the only section with any details it’s impact is being magnified. As a 56 YO NB Captain I am far more interested in other portions of the contract.
Full disclosure: I have a MIL reserve retirement that starts paying at 60.
Scoop
While it may be a small section of “text”, it is *potentially* an enormous amount of money. The people who say the company can afford it have their head in the sand in relation to the total package. This could be 50-90% of the contract gains in dollars, all funneled to a select few until time catches up with *hopefully* unchanged pay rates and Delta corporate health. If the dollar aspect of this was say only 10% of contract gains, the fight would be so much smaller. To be fair we haven’t been given negotiator costing, but back of napkin math highlights this glaring line item. What money will be left for anything else (eg work rules, vacation/training pay, pay rates, RR, etc) that benefits everyone?
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