MINIMUM BALANCES New Polling Needed

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01-02-2020, 06:31 AM

#201

AirbusPTC

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Posts: 314

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy

The point is, only the DZ is on a campaign to devalue the contract unless we give them a cash-out bonus at the end of their career. Everyone else is lobbying for gains across the spectrum.

Yes! Exactly...

01-02-2020, 06:42 AM

#202

Cogf16

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Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

Asking for a lump sum on the way out isn't showing unity. This proposal killed unity and any chance we had at achieving some gains. We haven't closed a single important section of our contract and we are passed the amendable date. I'd say negotiations are going poorly.

Do you not understand that to address all demographics as equally as possible, the guys near retirement need some sort of lump sum as an increased DC will not impact their retirement enough? Or do you NOT WANT EVERYONE on the list to get improved retirement monies???? I think that is the central issue in this debate. Are people okay with the guys near retirement only getting the increased DC for months and not MANY YEARS.....

01-02-2020, 06:50 AM

#203

AirbusPTC

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Quote:

Originally Posted by scrmhalf

How about instead of focusing on what DZers May get in the next contract, we focus on what the total projected dollar amount new hires are going to receive.
Then let’s compare the two final amounts
The DZer vs any post BK new hire.
I’ll go out on a limb and say the results will be quite sobering for the DZers.

Projecting out the dollar amount a new-hire is going to receive over their careers is as accurate as the ALPA seniority list projection we received as new-hires, or as accurate as the all Boeing "fleet rationalization projection" Leo Mullin published in 1998! Divisive silliness. No one knows the future, except this, it won't be all rainbows and lollipops over the course of a career. It is impossible to project out what a career WILL be worth with any real accuracy. Who knows what "black swan" event, SARS epidemic, bird flu, swine flu, hot war, , cold war, trade war, oil embargo, terrorist attack etc etc will wipe out an airline or two in the next decade...let alone the next thirty year career time frame.

01-02-2020, 06:53 AM

#204

Cogf16

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Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AirbusPTC

You're missing the point which was these guys could have afforded to save for their OWN retirement. Regardless of what "Badflaps" says he made in 1974 there were five DC-10's and five 747's and a half dozen L1011's (more coming every month) on the property (a decent % given how small Delta was at the time). These guys were making the equivalent of a the retail price of a Cadillac EVERY month, yet now complain that we need to sacrifice so THEY can be made whole. I don't think there will be much support for that.

Everyone has saved some amount of money for their retirement. Obviously the range of money is huge. However, I dont see why the "old guys" are somehow solely responsible for their retirement money and dont get to benefit from company monies in this "Best negotiating environment ever" Large DC increases ONLY, do not significantly help the 60+ crowd but can be HUGE for everyone else.

01-02-2020, 06:56 AM

#205

AirbusPTC

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogf16

That's like saying those nearing retirement should be paid at the higher FOURTH CONTRACT YEAR pay rates (of the new 4-year contract) while everyone else is paid at the FIRST CONTRACT YEAR pay rates of the new contract because those guys won't be around to enjoy the higher fourth-year pay rates. Doesn't make much sense now does it?

01-02-2020, 06:57 AM

#206

Denny Crane

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Position: Kickin’ Back

Posts: 6,971

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy

The point is, only the DZ is on a campaign to devalue the contract unless we give them a cash-out bonus at the end of their career. Everyone else is lobbying for gains across the spectrum.

That is just flat out wrong. This thread is about one specific proposal, not about the whole package. You show me one post that says DZer’s are only looking for this one item and not gains across the board.

Denny

01-02-2020, 07:04 AM

#207

Cogf16

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Position: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AirbusPTC

Nice deflection. Uneven distribution of monies to different demographics has been very common in pilot contracts. 1 year left or 30 years. The DC increases might be a little different dont you think?????

01-02-2020, 07:10 AM

#208

CBreezy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

Those people saying "give is money or else we'll vote away scope."

01-02-2020, 07:12 AM

#209

JamesBond

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Position: A350 Both

Posts: 7,292

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBreezy

The point is, only the DZ is on a campaign to devalue the contract unless we give them a cash-out bonus at the end of their career. Everyone else is lobbying for gains across the spectrum.

That's ridiculous.

01-02-2020, 07:12 AM

#210

m3113n1a1

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Posts: 3,246

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

Well JamesBond keeps making thinly veiled threats about selling scope. He might just be trolling, but it's not very good for unity.

I believe the majority of us are rational though and will vote based on the entire package.