Buck Rogers

Totally realize that. Wasn't insulating the lack of COLA is an outlier. My point for bringing it up was that when things were frozen the monthly stipend covered a lot of expenses. As time progresses...less and less. We all know that, but many fail to take that into account because their retirement(16%DC) is effectively indexed due to ROR and increasing salaries.

People typically only view things from their perspective. I was attempting to get them to think outside the box and put themselves in the shoes of DZers. A $5000 month retirement was ok in 2006...less so now and in 15 years might just cover federal taxes, state taxes, property taxes, health insurance and leave enough left over for beer and wings a coupla times a month. Need a new roof, water heater, AC unit, fence, food , recreation, medicine, long term care, new car, insurance, gas, electric, internet, phone? Those are expenses even if your house is paid off. Better have much more income/savings to defray those known expenses.

This is not a woe is me....just a factual observation

YMMV

Too late now, but a negotiated COLA for all DB and PBGC recipients would address the already retired and soon to retire pilots. Maybe more fair? Sounds reasonable at first blush. Unfortunately that would cost more than the current plan. Wow, that's staggering. 3% per year on accrued benefits would cost Delta more than what is on the table. 2-3% sounds reasonable but when you factor in the time element it is monumental. Goes both ways...got a long time to go at Delta staggering savings...got a long time in retirement? No cola?...staggering loss of buying power. No way to take a lump sum and outperform inflation, thein lies the rub

Cogf16

I agree that the company would probably delay a TA for their advantage, but when has it been any different? Doesn't mean we don't try to get this through, and use whatever leverage to make it happen.
As for the medical, I don't think that's a big enough "get" especially with national healthcare and medicare on the front page, not to mention many Delta pilots already have retiree medical. Think Big!

Buck Rogers

The negotiating committee did the constituents a big disservice by just throwing this proposal out with no supporting story.

A history of past practices for the newer guys, some examples of previous contracts(eliminating B scale etc), talking about this COLA issue, TVM or lack thereof should have preceded the "just throw it out there approach"

All this "better communication" the new MEC brought in is an epic fail in this instance.

People became entrenched pro/con before having enough info to ponder the problem. They threw out a solution before they unequivocally stated the problem...unless I missed it

Just my thoughts

Cogf16

Youre right, probably a huge mistake. Anecdotally, I haven't come across one guy on here who(seems to) support this. And most are fairly adamant.....

Scoop

I am withholding judgement. We need to see the final version and the whole PWA before we can form an educated opinion.


I agree the rollout was not optimal and Many of the younger posters don’t seem to like the fairness aspect and they have a point. With that said it appears you, Buck, and Denny are lining up in favor.

As long as the discussion remains civil I don’t care how many are in favor or against.

Merry Christmas All.

Scoop

Cogf16

And to you too. Okay, I'll beat a dead horse.

I think the first question everyone should ask themselves is,

Do they support retirement improvements tailored to benefit ALL DEMOGRAPHICS AS EQUAL AS POSSIBLE?

If so, it would seem to me that you have to have a lump sum or post retirement plan for the "old guys" I've posed this multiple times and no one has really answered.

Schwanker

These PWAs are negotiated every 3-4 years. We have no idea what future contracts will look like. The vast majority if gains in this PWA should not go to those who work the fewest days under it.

4fans

Yes this is the fear. And why would a soon to retire pilot vote no in such an instance? They don’t have to work under the contract, but they still get their payout.

DWC CAP10 USAF

1) you have been asking the question in the negotiator notepad thread, not this one

2) it started as “ GOAL OF IMPROVING EVERYONE'S retirement” and has morphed to “ ALL DEMOGRAPHICS AS EQUAL AS POSSIBLE?”...slightly different question.

Cogf16

Corrected!!!