While technically true, airlines are typically very apt at closing and opening bases willy-nilly. At a previous airline I was based in STL:closed, CVG:closed, GRR:closed, MKE:closed ORD:closed SDF:closed. I know some guys based at twice that many closed bases. Some of those bases were open for less than 2 years! You really expect someone to drag their family around like that? You choose to commute right?

While Delta isnt as bad as a regional you still have guys getting displaced out of base all the time.

As I stated before. The IROP CRITICAL UPDATES for NYC this summer had verbiage along the lines of “contact pilot assist If help is needed to get to work”.

No mention of the FOM or PWA commuting policy. I know it’s not the same as FAs just booking themselves. But a 30 second chat with pilot assist on the crew assist app and I had positive space to work during two of the IROPS this summer in NYC.

Yes I know exactly the verbiage you are talking about. It usually if not always has the stipulation to commute accordingly.

Here is another way of looking at it. Say a flight has 15 empty seats and some are first class and economy comfort and IFS puts out to just make a reservation regardless if they could nonrev on the flight or not. So now the 2015 hire FA is now positive space and upgraded while the 30 year pilot still makes the flight, the FA in this scenario would have easily made it also, but their seniority was totally abrogated.

I can guarantee you if this was reversed something would change.

If what was reversed? If a pilot got PS and the FA didn’t?

And the pilot was a 2015 hire and got upgraded due to the positive space and the 30 year FA had to sit in the back middle seat.

Im not arguing with you at all on the FA issue.

I'm just saying I had no issues getting PS to work in NYC this summer when needed during IROPs, and not via invoking any of our FOM/PWA policies.

I’m sure literally nothing would change

Literally wrong. The positive space and space available roles literally changed in his example.

I highly doubt the majority of pilots commute, not counting some who might so it for a year or two

Have any friends or family members who get transferred or change jobs with a subsequent location change as well? Very common occurrence. Were just fortunate we CAN commute, IF WE CHOOSE. Staying in the same city for most or all of a work career is certainly not the norm. And we all knew the chances of this when we took the job.....

Granted, I see this from a NY perspective, but I fly with a lot more guys who either commute by air or have one hell of a drive (3+ hours) to be considered local.

I'd day on my augmented crews I've never had more than one of the three or four of us be local. I'd guess maybe 1/4 of the Captains I fly with domestic/short non augmented intl are local or less.

Even then, I know plenty of guys who commute to ATL and DTW. Don't really have a good feel for the western bases because I don't fly with them very often.

I think I've seen both ALPA and the company at various times say it's about a 50/50 split between locals and commuters. Some bases, such as NY, are much higher than that, obviously.

Would be interesting to see the base breakout. I'd say.....
MSP, ATL CVG high % locals
SEA and SLC moderate locals
DTW higher % commuter, maybe 65/35
JFK, LAX high % commuters.

Very fluid with the numbers, but I'd guess it might be around 40-45% commuters, so pretty close to 50/50

At one point they were saying that NYC was 80% commuter with DTW running a close second.

Interesting fact: out of the nearly 5000 pilots based in ATL, 2800 live within 100 miles.

Anecdotally, I think DTW is becoming more of a "resident" base as older guys retire and new hires(from DTW based regionals) come in. Plus housing prices are pretty reasonable I believe.

I know during the SLI, our union knew where everyone lived and published it.

So even ATL is 40% or better commuters. Didn't expect that.

In my caveman brain, I define local as "I can sit short call at home provided I have a bag packed"

So 2 hour drive or less.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

So in ATL that’s Peach Tree City or Newnan. Cumming or anything north of Roswell on 400 or northwest of Marietta would be commuting. :D Once upon a time I was based there, meaning a crash pad in College Park even that could be an adventure getting to the airport.

Cumming is about a 50 mile drive. Even in heinous ATL traffic/transit time, that’s still local;) . Marietta is even closer.

I submit if you drive to work, can honestly make it within *about* 2 hours 95% of time, and (critically) gleefully don’t worry about a Jumpseat reservation, you aren’t a “commuter”...

I suspect the company and/or ALPA simply have a set radius for what is considered local, as in the PWA.

After 5 years of being based here, that seems to be my anecdotal conclusion as well.

It must be just me and when I’m driving then. :rolleyes: 2 hours with parking, you lead foots are all going to rue the day you laughed at the Miata. 35 MPG highway. Wheeeeeeee

Here is what is happening at regionals. At my old shop we got positive space front end commutes. At some regionals they are doing a paid hotel the night before a trip. I’m not going to post all of them, but here’s an excerpt from CommutAir dba United Express:

“Industry Leading Commuter Benefits - Skip crash pads with CommutAir right after Reserve. 4 company-paid hotel rooms per month to all registered commuter pilots in addition to our unlimited “make a good faith effort to get to work” commuter policy.”

https://www.flycommutair.com/careers/pilots/

Things are changing for commuters at the commuters for sure. From positive space, to hotels, nobody cares about you getting home yet. But just some food for thought.

At Compass it's 4 hotels a month, front or back of a trip. Hotel night just has to touch a day of the trip.

My point stands. The majority of pilots either commute OR will at some point in their career. Those who can say they went 20-40 years and never spent a single bid period without commuting are a true minority. Hence, having a robust commuter policy should be standard for any quality airline CBA.

Dang, averaging 30 mph-ish on that commute? Ugh, that sux. Clearly, I haven't made that particular drive during rush hour in a while...

As a former commuter, I wholeheartedly agree. Doesn't affect me anymore, but I'm very sympathetic to those who do - or will.

The Unable to Commute clause should be codified into the PWA and the stupid 2 hour limit removed. These are zero cost items and would greatly improve quality of life.

In 2017, the RCC did a rotation survey surveying all sorts of things - and if you were a commuter among them - the summary said that 51% of those filling out the survey were commuters - so you were spot on.

The survey breaks it down by % for each category. Look for RCC Notepad 17-03 in your email. In the email is a link to the survey results in an Excel file - still active, I just tried it.

Problem is that the results make it hard to please everyone. For example, in 2017 DTW 737A had 72% commuting, while the DTW 737B had only 40% commuting. So how do you try and build the trips?

And read the comments for some categories... entertaining!

I presume you are referencing the “2 hour limit” as it relates to Unable to Commute, not short call (as the SC language does not have a time associated, not should it).

Are you talking about what is in the FOM ad far as codifying Unable to Commite? 23.X has almost the same language as the FOM, except for the 2 hour separation.

They are similar but very different clauses. The PWA clause can have any airline be a backup as long as it's 2 hours between the two. The UTC clause must be a Delta backup and while there isn't a specific 2 hour limit in the FOM, I've heard of some people getting pushback because they didn't have two hours. The PWA clause, it is the company's discretion to have you meet the trip or drop you without pay. The FOM clause, they MUST positive space you to start your trip. The FOM clause is not contractual and needs to be. And the 2 hour limit needs to be removed entirely. As long as it is reasonable to get on your primary and backup is all that should be required.

Pretty close. For some paid move benefits our PWA requires to live within a 125 mile straight line from the center of the airport. You could make a good argument for anyone being within this range is not really a commuter but its hard to categorically define this.

Is a SAN guy who flies to LAX a commuter even if he can (normally) drive it in under 2 hours? How about the guy who lives 200 miles but always drives?

Scoop

Enjoy the situation you have invented. I warned you about opening Pandora's box. Now that you have done so you complain about the ramifications Live with that

This is true to an extent. But the sodimizer has done something quite unprecedented in Delta recent history. In the case of NYC, taken categories like the 320, from 97% commutable, to 6% in only 2 years. This has had serious negative effects on pilot QOL. In the largest commuter base in the system Delta removed nearly all semblance of commutability. virtually overnight, guaranteeing many a requirement to commute in a day early and finish a day late.

Does anyone know the actual criteria used to determine if something is commutable? I come up with much less than 6%. And the criteria I have been using I think is pretty generous in that not many would be able to make it on both ends.

Defining if something is commutable in NYC is difficult because it depends on where you live. The specific statistic in NYC is based on cherry picked months and appears to place all the blame on Carmine. What actually happened was three things. The category went from 9000 to 16,000 block hours, The MD90’s were phased out resulting in far more early and late departures and a big push was made not to have west coast bases flying early departures from the east coast.
This last item was discussed on the forum here quite a bit. Certainly credit reduction was part of the issue but not the biggest part.
If the MEC wanted to make a honest and valid comparison they would have showed block hours and month verses month statistics along with the changes in departure times for the fleet.

What is commutable for me and what is for someone else is irrelevant.

The RCC and crew resources post commutability stats every month. I’m curious what they define as commutable. They obviously have some defined checkin and checkout time to track the %.

Sign-ins after noon and releases before 1800 sounds reasonable.

I don't know why layover crews who just have to take a shower and appear in the lobby can't cover any report before noon.

For NY 320 I set the parameters at after 10 and between 0200-1900. 13 trips last month and 21 this month fit that criteria.

TESLA Model 3, 133 MPGe, 0 to 60 < 5. Eats Mustangs and BMW's, poops nothing. Has no ability to poop. It uses all of its sunshine for POWAH. Turn on the autopilot when you get in traffic.

Life changer if you reside on the Northside of the ATL.

WWHHEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOWW!

It "poops nothing" in the actual driving. It surely pooped a whole lot in the building of it. Or do those batteries build themselves out of bamboo and alfalfa?

But I'm a huge fan of the Tesla. I just cry BS on the zero emmission label. That's like saying if you had an insurance policy with a zero dollar deductible, then any repair from an accident would be "free." You absolutely paid it... just in a different manner.

I’m considering getting a Tesla for Philly-NYC commute. I was also curious on the total carbon footprint of owning a Tesla for ~100k miles vs. hybrid vs. typical sedan. Does the Tesla construction use substantially more energy compared to a conventional ICE vehicle? At what mileage would you “break even” considering it doesn’t burn gasoline? I’m genuinely curious and not trying to start a political debate. Anyone know any studies on this?

I believe the strip mining involved to build the batteries has come into question in the past. I haven't researched it in awhile though.