Nov/dec ae
10-20-2019, 09:29 AM
#341
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
It’s very simple in my mind because.....I’m pretty simpleminded!
The figures posted put the 321neo veeeery close to the 757-200. What I would call negligible differences. Doesn’t matter comparing it to larger airplane like the 7er when it pays the same as the smaller 757-200.
Also, when the 737-800 and 777 rates were negotiated, I believe they were adjusted for how much more efficient they were compared to the rest of the fleet and that’s why there is not much difference in the 737 and 75/767 rate now.
I think the minimum rate for the 321 should be similar to the 757-200 rate.
Denny
The figures posted put the 321neo veeeery close to the 757-200. What I would call negligible differences. Doesn’t matter comparing it to larger airplane like the 7er when it pays the same as the smaller 757-200.
Also, when the 737-800 and 777 rates were negotiated, I believe they were adjusted for how much more efficient they were compared to the rest of the fleet and that’s why there is not much difference in the 737 and 75/767 rate now.
I think the minimum rate for the 321 should be similar to the 757-200 rate.
Denny
10-20-2019, 09:33 AM
#342
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
The 757 is the same cockpit as the 767 and the pilots can go back and forth. The A321 pilot does not have the ability to go fly the 767 or A330. That is the first pay distinction and a very important one.
Secondly, the 757 is still a better airplane range, speed, payload, seats.
Range: A321NEO 3500-4100 miles depending on configuration
757-200 3300-4700 miles on (domestic vs TWA birds)
757-300 3200 miles
Speed: A321NEO M.78 cruise, MMO M.82
757-200/300 cruise M.80, MMO M.86
Seats: A321NEO 192
757-200 199
757-300 234
Payload: A321NEO: 56,000#
757-200: 57,160#
757-300 68,140#
MTOW: A321NEO 206,000#
757-200 255,000#
757-300 273,000#
I have now given you a reasoned, logical argument as to why the 757 and 767 could pay more than the A321NEO. I’m not dogging the NEO in any way. I like the airplane. I hope we get more than 100.
If we want to band the two to the same rate, fine with me. But you can’t argue that they should be paid the same on the basis of equality or superiority of aircraft. It is a little short on the 757 and vastly smaller than a 767.
Secondly, the 757 is still a better airplane range, speed, payload, seats.
Range: A321NEO 3500-4100 miles depending on configuration
757-200 3300-4700 miles on (domestic vs TWA birds)
757-300 3200 miles
Speed: A321NEO M.78 cruise, MMO M.82
757-200/300 cruise M.80, MMO M.86
Seats: A321NEO 192
757-200 199
757-300 234
Payload: A321NEO: 56,000#
757-200: 57,160#
757-300 68,140#
MTOW: A321NEO 206,000#
757-200 255,000#
757-300 273,000#
I have now given you a reasoned, logical argument as to why the 757 and 767 could pay more than the A321NEO. I’m not dogging the NEO in any way. I like the airplane. I hope we get more than 100.
If we want to band the two to the same rate, fine with me. But you can’t argue that they should be paid the same on the basis of equality or superiority of aircraft. It is a little short on the 757 and vastly smaller than a 767.
10-20-2019, 09:43 AM
#343
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,947
What a pitiful way to participate in this discussion, for shame.
Your "game, set, match" implies that there is a winner, and a loser -- just like in the sport in which the phrase is used.
It could not be further from the truth.
This is a discussion amongst your peers.
One makes some points that you like, without adding any critical thinking to them, and then you attempt to declare them the winner.
Winner of what?
And getting back to the discussion, as the 7ER fades away and the 321NEO comes in, you ought to be getting into the mindset of finding any way you can to show that the NEO ought to be paying the same as the airplane it's replacing, because that makes sense, doesn't it? Wouldn't we as a group want that? What on earth makes you favor any other outcome?
The entire MGTOW section is pointless because the 757-200 is a heavier airplane.
Cruise speeds are all basically the same. .79 vs. .80. Who cares. We all know the 757 doesn't cruise around at .86 regardless of what the MMO is.
Payload is almost identical from the 757 to the NEO and the NEO carries that load just as far in the same amount of time while burning way, way, way less fuel.
It is the future.
Get used to it.
The future should pay as much as the past.
Your "game, set, match" implies that there is a winner, and a loser -- just like in the sport in which the phrase is used.
It could not be further from the truth.
This is a discussion amongst your peers.
One makes some points that you like, without adding any critical thinking to them, and then you attempt to declare them the winner.
Winner of what?
And getting back to the discussion, as the 7ER fades away and the 321NEO comes in, you ought to be getting into the mindset of finding any way you can to show that the NEO ought to be paying the same as the airplane it's replacing, because that makes sense, doesn't it? Wouldn't we as a group want that? What on earth makes you favor any other outcome?
The entire MGTOW section is pointless because the 757-200 is a heavier airplane.
Cruise speeds are all basically the same. .79 vs. .80. Who cares. We all know the 757 doesn't cruise around at .86 regardless of what the MMO is.
Payload is almost identical from the 757 to the NEO and the NEO carries that load just as far in the same amount of time while burning way, way, way less fuel.
It is the future.
Get used to it.
The future should pay as much as the past.
10-20-2019, 10:26 AM
#345
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,529
10-20-2019, 10:53 AM
#348
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2019
Position: 320A
Posts: 90
24L -E8 works good, last long time (unless there is a tailwind.) Probably done 20 this summer and only once were we payload optimized with four seats blocked ( yes, a few non-revs made it on.)
10-20-2019, 10:55 AM
#349
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,566
Already stated but needs to be echoed.
Planes are getting lighter and more efficient, that should NOT be a detriment to our pay, it should enhance it.
Last edited by notEnuf; 10-20-2019 at 11:09 AM.
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