Nov/dec ae
10-02-2019, 05:11 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 631
Respectfully, pay per block hour is largely irrelevant. Even if one lives next door to the employee parking lot, he is not free from from all obligation during a reserve availability period. For instance, my main hobby is fishing, and I find it difficult to go fishing during even long call reserve, because many of the lakes around the Atlanta area have terrible cell phone reception.
Similarly, many seem to have great pay per block hour ratios by dropping their entire regular line holder schedules and picking up short notice GS's and two day two leg WS's. That eye watering pay per block hour ratio doesn't tell the whole story if one must always make himself available for a two hour response time. Frequently, I like to do things that make me unavailable to answer the phone or check the computer for more than two hours.
Having said all of that, reserve GS rolling thunder is great, and I used that technique when I lived in Midtown Atlanta, but now that I live on the edge of the SC response window, I prefer a regular line.
Pay per hour obligated to the company would be a more useful (and more difficult to determine) metric.
Similarly, many seem to have great pay per block hour ratios by dropping their entire regular line holder schedules and picking up short notice GS's and two day two leg WS's. That eye watering pay per block hour ratio doesn't tell the whole story if one must always make himself available for a two hour response time. Frequently, I like to do things that make me unavailable to answer the phone or check the computer for more than two hours.
Having said all of that, reserve GS rolling thunder is great, and I used that technique when I lived in Midtown Atlanta, but now that I live on the edge of the SC response window, I prefer a regular line.
Pay per hour obligated to the company would be a more useful (and more difficult to determine) metric.
10-02-2019, 05:39 AM
#102
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,891
Everyone seems to have their own preferred method. I mainly look at hours (dollars) paid per day I'm away from home. I do agree that reserve should still be consider working, but it's not all created equal. There are only a handful of departures each day (not often are we legal for a DH then fly) and aside from the extremely rare repo or equip sub, our shortest trip is 3 days, so WB reserve is MUCH more consistent and predicable. I generally bid 4 day blocks, so if I haven't been called by 0830 on day 2, I'm highly confident I won't be used. Living an hour from the parking lot (1+05 with traffic) means I have zero problems doing my favorite hobbies while on long call. I was out bouncing around the local grass strips the other day while on call...never got above 1000 ft, so I even had cell service 
. I only average about 1-2 SCs a month and even at that the shortest callout I've ever received was 4+ hours. Unless I roll out into town or are visiting friends, I generally don't even pack a bag on SC. My normal LC call out is 24-32 hours. Obviously, if I commuted, it would be a totally different ball game.
I however do a healthy mix of line/reserve. Reserves get "abused" in the summer and usually fly 12 days, so I bid a line. I'll still work 12 days but make more than reserve and have much better control over my schedule. Unless I need a line to get certain days off, for obvious reasons, I'll bid reserve in the winter and months with training or vacation.
*EDIT: I'll also add for the junior guys here. At least in DTW, GS#2 is extremely rare and often, even late in the month GS#1 are still going to guys with seniority numbers in the 3-4k range. Any dreams of bidding reserves and rolling thunder are probably not going to happen. First day of this bid month a GS went to seniority number 1,8xx, yesterday it was 2,9xx. I'm about as flexible wrt schedule as you can get, I've had a continuous GS in (every base) for the 2+ years. In that time, I have actually flown 3 GSs, while only turning down 1 that I could have flown. Most went way senior to me or were out of base with an hour to report.
. I only average about 1-2 SCs a month and even at that the shortest callout I've ever received was 4+ hours. Unless I roll out into town or are visiting friends, I generally don't even pack a bag on SC. My normal LC call out is 24-32 hours. Obviously, if I commuted, it would be a totally different ball game. I however do a healthy mix of line/reserve. Reserves get "abused" in the summer and usually fly 12 days, so I bid a line. I'll still work 12 days but make more than reserve and have much better control over my schedule. Unless I need a line to get certain days off, for obvious reasons, I'll bid reserve in the winter and months with training or vacation.
*EDIT: I'll also add for the junior guys here. At least in DTW, GS#2 is extremely rare and often, even late in the month GS#1 are still going to guys with seniority numbers in the 3-4k range. Any dreams of bidding reserves and rolling thunder are probably not going to happen. First day of this bid month a GS went to seniority number 1,8xx, yesterday it was 2,9xx. I'm about as flexible wrt schedule as you can get, I've had a continuous GS in (every base) for the 2+ years. In that time, I have actually flown 3 GSs, while only turning down 1 that I could have flown. Most went way senior to me or were out of base with an hour to report.
10-02-2019, 06:24 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,566
Short call might restrict my activities but long call doesn't. Obviously commuting (or living in base) is a choice, and commuting to reserve is a poor choice. If you choose to add a half day to both ends of your trips the earnings efficiency is always going to go down. Front/back end DHs are the only way commuting is negated but then the travel time is rarely the same as the paid time, but if you live in a city that frequently requires DHs and layovers, you could get the stay at home bonus. This has never worked for me but it could theoretically for awhile. My metric is pay/TAFB and short call has little or no impact on that metric but affects QOL some what.
Last edited by notEnuf; 10-02-2019 at 06:39 AM.
10-02-2019, 06:47 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 393
Everyone seems to have their own preferred method. I mainly look at hours (dollars) paid per day I'm away from home. I do agree that reserve should still be consider working, but it's not all created equal. There are only a handful of departures each day (not often are we legal for a DH then fly) and aside from the extremely rare repo or equip sub, our shortest trip is 3 days, so WB reserve is MUCH more consistent and predicable. I generally bid 4 day blocks, so if I haven't been called by 0830 on day 2, I'm highly confident I won't be used. Living an hour from the parking lot (1+05 with traffic) means I have zero problems doing my favorite hobbies while on long call. I was out bouncing around the local grass strips the other day while on call...never got above 1000 ft, so I even had cell service . I only average about 1-2 SCs a month and even at that the shortest callout I've ever received was 4+ hours. Unless I roll out into town or are visiting friends, I generally don't even pack a bag on SC. My normal LC call out is 24-32 hours. Obviously, if I commuted, it would be a totally different ball game.
I however do a healthy mix of line/reserve. Reserves get "abused" in the summer and usually fly 12 days, so I bid a line. I'll still work 12 days but make more than reserve and have much better control over my schedule. Unless I need a line to get certain days off, for obvious reasons, I'll bid reserve in the winter and months with training or vacation.
*EDIT: I'll also add for the junior guys here. At least in DTW, GS#2 is extremely rare and often, even late in the month GS#1 are still going to guys with seniority numbers in the 3-4k range. Any dreams of bidding reserves and rolling thunder are probably not going to happen. First day of this bid month a GS went to seniority number 1,8xx, yesterday it was 2,9xx. I'm about as flexible wrt schedule as you can get, I've had a continuous GS in (every base) for the 2+ years. In that time, I have actually flown 3 GSs, while only turning down 1 that I could have flown. Most went way senior to me or were out of base with an hour to report.
. I only average about 1-2 SCs a month and even at that the shortest callout I've ever received was 4+ hours. Unless I roll out into town or are visiting friends, I generally don't even pack a bag on SC. My normal LC call out is 24-32 hours. Obviously, if I commuted, it would be a totally different ball game. I however do a healthy mix of line/reserve. Reserves get "abused" in the summer and usually fly 12 days, so I bid a line. I'll still work 12 days but make more than reserve and have much better control over my schedule. Unless I need a line to get certain days off, for obvious reasons, I'll bid reserve in the winter and months with training or vacation.
*EDIT: I'll also add for the junior guys here. At least in DTW, GS#2 is extremely rare and often, even late in the month GS#1 are still going to guys with seniority numbers in the 3-4k range. Any dreams of bidding reserves and rolling thunder are probably not going to happen. First day of this bid month a GS went to seniority number 1,8xx, yesterday it was 2,9xx. I'm about as flexible wrt schedule as you can get, I've had a continuous GS in (every base) for the 2+ years. In that time, I have actually flown 3 GSs, while only turning down 1 that I could have flown. Most went way senior to me or were out of base with an hour to report.
10-02-2019, 06:51 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,657
To add a NB CA perspective, at least for ATL717A, if you live in base you'll get a GS almost every month if you desire. Days you least expect it the 3am ARCOS comes in and 15 mins later the award goes all the way down to 99% in category.
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10-02-2019, 10:26 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Short call might restrict my activities but long call doesn't. Obviously commuting (or living in base) is a choice, and commuting to reserve is a poor choice. If you choose to add a half day to both ends of your trips the earnings efficiency is always going to go down. Front/back end DHs are the only way commuting is negated but then the travel time is rarely the same as the paid time, but if you live in a city that frequently requires DHs and layovers, you could get the stay at home bonus. This has never worked for me but it could theoretically for awhile. My metric is pay/TAFB and short call has little or no impact on that metric but affects QOL some what.
Some people actually do value where they live and with our reserve rules even commuting isn't bad. You are in no place to pass judgement on the life choices of others.
10-02-2019, 10:39 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,566
Made some bad choices, have you? Relax, the context is time productivity. Go ahead and sit around NYC, I could care less.
10-02-2019, 11:30 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,689
The problem with commuting on reserve is that for some the ability to live within the 12 hour leash and arrive rested for a trip is a fairytale. That forces pilots who live within the rule to pick up the slack for those who don’t. Case in point, west coast guy who comes to NYC to sit his long calls. Expects a noon release to go home but gets tagged to ferry one aircraft to ATL, sit for 4 hours to ferry another aircraft back up to NY. Trip should have gone to another pilot who could not make the 7am signin.
10-02-2019, 11:37 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 319
Everyone seems to have their own preferred method. I mainly look at hours (dollars) paid per day I'm away from home. I do agree that reserve should still be consider working, but it's not all created equal. There are only a handful of departures each day (not often are we legal for a DH then fly) and aside from the extremely rare repo or equip sub, our shortest trip is 3 days, so WB reserve is MUCH more consistent and predicable. I generally bid 4 day blocks, so if I haven't been called by 0830 on day 2, I'm highly confident I won't be used. Living an hour from the parking lot (1+05 with traffic) means I have zero problems doing my favorite hobbies while on long call. I was out bouncing around the local grass strips the other day while on call...never got above 1000 ft, so I even had cell service . I only average about 1-2 SCs a month and even at that the shortest callout I've ever received was 4+ hours. Unless I roll out into town or are visiting friends, I generally don't even pack a bag on SC. My normal LC call out is 24-32 hours. Obviously, if I commuted, it would be a totally different ball game.
I however do a healthy mix of line/reserve. Reserves get "abused" in the summer and usually fly 12 days, so I bid a line. I'll still work 12 days but make more than reserve and have much better control over my schedule. Unless I need a line to get certain days off, for obvious reasons, I'll bid reserve in the winter and months with training or vacation.
*EDIT: I'll also add for the junior guys here. At least in DTW, GS#2 is extremely rare and often, even late in the month GS#1 are still going to guys with seniority numbers in the 3-4k range. Any dreams of bidding reserves and rolling thunder are probably not going to happen. First day of this bid month a GS went to seniority number 1,8xx, yesterday it was 2,9xx. I'm about as flexible wrt schedule as you can get, I've had a continuous GS in (every base) for the 2+ years. In that time, I have actually flown 3 GSs, while only turning down 1 that I could have flown. Most went way senior to me or were out of base with an hour to report.
. I only average about 1-2 SCs a month and even at that the shortest callout I've ever received was 4+ hours. Unless I roll out into town or are visiting friends, I generally don't even pack a bag on SC. My normal LC call out is 24-32 hours. Obviously, if I commuted, it would be a totally different ball game. I however do a healthy mix of line/reserve. Reserves get "abused" in the summer and usually fly 12 days, so I bid a line. I'll still work 12 days but make more than reserve and have much better control over my schedule. Unless I need a line to get certain days off, for obvious reasons, I'll bid reserve in the winter and months with training or vacation.
*EDIT: I'll also add for the junior guys here. At least in DTW, GS#2 is extremely rare and often, even late in the month GS#1 are still going to guys with seniority numbers in the 3-4k range. Any dreams of bidding reserves and rolling thunder are probably not going to happen. First day of this bid month a GS went to seniority number 1,8xx, yesterday it was 2,9xx. I'm about as flexible wrt schedule as you can get, I've had a continuous GS in (every base) for the 2+ years. In that time, I have actually flown 3 GSs, while only turning down 1 that I could have flown. Most went way senior to me or were out of base with an hour to report.
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