First A330 NEO
02-04-2019, 06:43 AM
#101
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 330 B
Posts: 1,622
It’s not about shiny new the jets, but while we’re at it we are receiving shiny new Airbus jets. I happen to think the 350 is a better aircraft than the 787. My point is that it is not the right aircraft for us to effectively serve a lot of markets from SEA which is supposed to be our stateside replacement for NRT. The same is probably true of the A339 neo due to it’s size and lack of range compared to the 787-8.
I certainly hope Im wrong; mgt has said the A339 will have a big presence in SEA but it doesn’t have the range for SIN or HKG. And it’s fairly similar in size to a 777 which was clearly too much airplane for HKG, so I don’t see that working for us, espcially now that CX jumped on the route as soon as we ended it. But again Id love to proven wrong and will eat my words if I am.
02-04-2019, 06:57 AM
#102
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Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,238
If you look at how our network to Asia in particular has changed; and our decision to make SEA a hub where we play second fiddle to Alaska, a plane the size of a 787-8 would seem ideal to replace the capacity we previously ran through NRT with larger wide bodies. I cited SEA-HKG and SEA-SIN as routes that we could have flown with 787s that CX and SQ beat us to the punch on. Another example is MSP-HND which has had poor loads with a 777 that the 787 would be better suited to. The 787-10 also has unbeatable CASM, superior to the A330 which Delta has claimed is our most profitable wide body. I realize our mgt cares mostly about the capex involved with new airplanes, but there is also something to be said for missed revenue opportunities because we lack the right aircraft for certain routes.
02-04-2019, 08:37 AM
#103
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,598
The statement you quoted as silly wasn’t mine to begin with. And in my opinion, Mr. Anderson did act out of spite. He didn’t spite his own face necessarily because it’s not like Boeing was the only option. And the A330 and A350 are suitable airplanes for Delta. But really, his little stunt about used 777s that sent Boeing stock tumbling wasn’t spiteful???
It’s not about shiny new the jets, but while we’re at it we are receiving shiny new Airbus jets. I happen to think the 350 is a better aircraft than the 787. My point is that it is not the right aircraft for us to effectively serve a lot of markets from SEA which is supposed to be our stateside replacement for NRT. The same is probably true of the A339 neo due to it’s size and lack of range compared to the 787-8.
I certainly hope Im wrong; mgt has said the A339 will have a big presence in SEA but it doesn’t have the range for SIN or HKG. And it’s fairly similar in size to a 777 which was clearly too much airplane for HKG, so I don’t see that working for us, espcially now that CX jumped on the route as soon as we ended it. But again Id love to proven wrong and will eat my words if I am.
It’s not about shiny new the jets, but while we’re at it we are receiving shiny new Airbus jets. I happen to think the 350 is a better aircraft than the 787. My point is that it is not the right aircraft for us to effectively serve a lot of markets from SEA which is supposed to be our stateside replacement for NRT. The same is probably true of the A339 neo due to it’s size and lack of range compared to the 787-8.
I certainly hope Im wrong; mgt has said the A339 will have a big presence in SEA but it doesn’t have the range for SIN or HKG. And it’s fairly similar in size to a 777 which was clearly too much airplane for HKG, so I don’t see that working for us, espcially now that CX jumped on the route as soon as we ended it. But again Id love to proven wrong and will eat my words if I am.
Moreover, your use of HKG is a poor example as United just posted significant losses on HKG ops which legitimized Delta's smart decision to pull out of that market:
Notable Special Charges
For fourth quarter 2018, the company expects to record a special non-cash impairment charge of $206 million ($160 million net of taxes) associated with its Hong Kong routes. The company conducted its annual impairment review of intangible assets in the fourth quarter of 2018, which consisted of a comparison of the book value of specific assets to the fair value of those assets calculated using the discounted cash flow method. Due to increased costs without sufficient corresponding increases in revenue in the Hong Kong market, the company determined that the value of its Hong Kong routes had been impaired. The collateral pledged under the company's term loan, including the Hong Kong routes, continues to be sufficient to satisfy the loan covenants.
For fourth quarter 2018, the company expects to record a special non-cash impairment charge of $206 million ($160 million net of taxes) associated with its Hong Kong routes. The company conducted its annual impairment review of intangible assets in the fourth quarter of 2018, which consisted of a comparison of the book value of specific assets to the fair value of those assets calculated using the discounted cash flow method. Due to increased costs without sufficient corresponding increases in revenue in the Hong Kong market, the company determined that the value of its Hong Kong routes had been impaired. The collateral pledged under the company's term loan, including the Hong Kong routes, continues to be sufficient to satisfy the loan covenants.
02-04-2019, 09:02 AM
#104
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Have you been to or flown over SEA, or logged onto dlnet at all in the last year or two?
That part of your arguement doesn't even make sense, but even if it did, and that somehow screwed us out of the 787 Miracle-liner or whatever, that's a vastly superior thing for the pilot group when you look at the massive narrowbody positions its created versus unlimited 50% capacity charity for AK's large 737's.
While I like the 787 and hope we get them eventually, if the path to getting them is dehubbing SEA and giving it back to AK then screw the 787 I hope we never get it LOL!
02-04-2019, 09:16 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 330 B
Posts: 1,622
LOLwut?
Have you been to or flown over SEA, or logged onto dlnet at all in the last year or two?
That part of your arguement doesn't even make sense, but even if it did, and that somehow screwed us out of the 787 Miracle-liner or whatever, that's a vastly superior thing for the pilot group when you look at the massive narrowbody positions its created versus unlimited 50% capacity charity for AK's large 737's.
While I like the 787 and hope we get them eventually, if the path to getting them is dehubbing SEA and giving it back to AK then screw the 787 I hope we never get it LOL!
Have you been to or flown over SEA, or logged onto dlnet at all in the last year or two?
That part of your arguement doesn't even make sense, but even if it did, and that somehow screwed us out of the 787 Miracle-liner or whatever, that's a vastly superior thing for the pilot group when you look at the massive narrowbody positions its created versus unlimited 50% capacity charity for AK's large 737's.
While I like the 787 and hope we get them eventually, if the path to getting them is dehubbing SEA and giving it back to AK then screw the 787 I hope we never get it LOL!
02-04-2019, 09:17 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 330 B
Posts: 1,622
The thing is Delta must have made a decision that flying hub to hub is more profitable or sustainable. And I'm good with whatever makes the most money. Sure you can cherry pick routes here and there, but do you really want to spend the money for a whole new fleet for those few routes? Apparently Delta doesn't, and probably for a good reason.
02-04-2019, 09:21 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
The statement you quoted as silly wasn’t mine to begin with. And in my opinion, Mr. Anderson did act out of spite. He didn’t spite his own face necessarily because it’s not like Boeing was the only option. And the A330 and A350 are suitable airplanes for Delta. But really, his little stunt about used 777s that sent Boeing stock tumbling wasn’t spiteful???
It’s not about shiny new the jets, but while we’re at it we are receiving shiny new Airbus jets. I happen to think the 350 is a better aircraft than the 787. My point is that it is not the right aircraft for us to effectively serve a lot of markets from SEA which is supposed to be our stateside replacement for NRT. The same is probably true of the A339 neo due to it’s size and lack of range compared to the 787-8.
I certainly hope Im wrong; mgt has said the A339 will have a big presence in SEA but it doesn’t have the range for SIN or HKG. And it’s fairly similar in size to a 777 which was clearly too much airplane for HKG, so I don’t see that working for us, espcially now that CX jumped on the route as soon as we ended it. But again Id love to proven wrong and will eat my words if I am.
It’s not about shiny new the jets, but while we’re at it we are receiving shiny new Airbus jets. I happen to think the 350 is a better aircraft than the 787. My point is that it is not the right aircraft for us to effectively serve a lot of markets from SEA which is supposed to be our stateside replacement for NRT. The same is probably true of the A339 neo due to it’s size and lack of range compared to the 787-8.
I certainly hope Im wrong; mgt has said the A339 will have a big presence in SEA but it doesn’t have the range for SIN or HKG. And it’s fairly similar in size to a 777 which was clearly too much airplane for HKG, so I don’t see that working for us, espcially now that CX jumped on the route as soon as we ended it. But again Id love to proven wrong and will eat my words if I am.
02-04-2019, 09:28 AM
#108
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 330 B
Posts: 1,622
02-04-2019, 09:34 AM
#109
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Just because we're not the runaway #1 in a market doesn't mean we don't have a very strong presence. SEA is an example of that and now (finally) so is BOS. We went from a distant #3 to a dominant #2 with even bigger things on the (to borrow an AK term) "horizon".
What we gained from doing what we did in SEA is many times what we theoretically "lost" by it screwing us out of the 787 even if that's an accurate assumption (which I don't think it is).
02-04-2019, 09:37 AM
#110
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Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
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