e6bpilot

You sound pretty pleased with yourself. You should be proud of what you guys have at Delta. It’s pretty badass. Don’t really see a need to act this way, though.
I know if I read this post, I would want to come and work with people just like you.

Get Real

SWAPA “2.0” is a dysfunctional mess and our pilot group along with much of the BOD views its charismatic part timer leader as its only hope. And he terms out 3 months after our amendable date.

The reason he’s viewed as our only hope is because he has twice used (with sub industry “success” results) the same company culture you are transfixed by without knowing it in a martial arts style maneuver because that’s the only thing our group can find unity through. He talks about improving our culture as a rallying point thereby giving credence to it. It’s the only thing he knows to do.

The grievance list is a symptom of our pilot group, the success of company messaging, and the decades long failure of SWAPA education comm, messaging, our industry SA, and RLA SA.

Is the company to blame? Do you blame squirrels for eating nuts? Who is to blame? Are you willing to take responsibility, locate the failure points, and support others who do?

Or will you keep doing this?

ALPA and APA pull your sled. Enjoy the ride I guess.

Thanks for apology. Not necessary. We are each giving our perspectives like you said, and presumably to help others make a huge career decision.

PolishFlyerDude

Nope, wrong, not Delta. That was sarcasm. Sorry, thought it was obvious.

And, btw, what “heavy lifting” are you doing (besides posting on APC I guess) to help “SWAPA 2.0” get all of us a better contract and to help lift our profession out of the malaise of the lost decade?

What is it that could be improved at SWA and how do you plan to help us get it in 2020?

What are you doing to help SWAPA have the firepower to push grievances through in the face of the company’s continual stonewalling?

Get Real

I’ll one up ya. What is SWAPA 2.0 (that’s painful just to type) doing now, asking us to do now, or saying they are planning to do soon to make leverage so as to push grievances through or anything else? I mean besides writing angry letters saying they are angry ala’ Hans Brix in Team America?

Get Real

Agree. And as you pointed out a list of SWAPA grievances a mile long. Yet you also seem to infer an agnostic stance should be taken for those with a choice with domiciles factored out.

This is centering now on contract stuff and again that is certainly not the only other consideration, however the more factors outside of that taken into account, arguably the more it tips the scales further.

RJSAviator76

Grass always looks a little greener across the street but usually because it’s fertilized with a different brand of manure. Want a small example? What percentage of Delta passengers are flown by the pilots on the Delta Air Lines seniority list? What percentage of Southwest passengers are flown by the pilots on the Southwest Airlines seniority list? By the way, a big fat “F-U ALPA!” is in order here.

Everyone likes to cherrypick certain parts important to them. Get Real is envious of certain parts of what Delta or any other legacy have to offer. Great... his prerogative.

We can debate this until the cows come home. You have people who are in favor of 30 hour layovers, others want 12 and get home. How do you convince the other that they’re wrong?

All I personally needed to hear to dismiss Get Real’s viewpoint is his dismissal of the importance of base choices, living in the base and especially the effect that has on one’s career earnings and quality of life. But he might be a commuter and he would be one at Delta as well, so what may be important to him may not be as important to me.

The truth is that every airline has its shares of people believing that the grass is greener elsewhere and they’ll justify their position by cherrypicking certain aspects of a pilot contract but won’t look at the overall picture objectively. The sad part is when they start dissing their fellow pilots for disagreeing with them or their point of view.

Get Real

One can observe how it could be that SWA has the best balance sheet and at the same time SWAPA does not have the best narrow body contract by a reach or three. I’ll make it a point to stress once again that the contract isn’t everything.

3 decades of flying the line...one of my past lives included a non legacy ALPA carrier. As a fairly young guy I felt as though we were not represented equally compared with the big ALPA guys and left that place with a bad taste in my mouth. Later on you kinda realize some things. In short, I got the big labor picture.

There is a deep-seated hatred of ALPA that’s extremely common within our group and isn’t fully accountable from backgrounds. That’s anorher thing to consider. Try to pick their brains about it though and it’s incoherent.

One thing for sure ..there is little-to-no sense of unionism or industry peer awareness regarding labor issues. Soft skill personality types just aren’t into that apparently. The company is genius on their hiring.

You’ll only hear about how bad ALPA screwed up on scope and codeshare everywhere (exactly as in the post above) and what jerkoffs they all are. When ALPA says “pay shortage, not pilot shortage” SWAPA gets busy saying “pilot shortage.” If stuff like that bugs...then consider listening to what I’m saying.

What is truly amazing about all the ALPA hate is never do they bring up the monumental screw ups SWAPA has on its resume such as a 10 year contact with pay feeezes with a 5 year reopener clause the union took the vote on a year ahead of schedule resulting in it staying closed. That resulted in us becoming 39 percent below industry AVERAGE narrow body pay shortly thereafter. That’s just one of many examples.

Do you believe “we are all in this together” with regards to our OAL peers? If so, the collective here WILL GIVE YOU NOTHING on that. Nada. Zip.

Instead you’ll see the hair stand up on the back of their necks at the mere suggestion...unless they are actively reading a contract comparison 3 years past amendable. When they set that down....poof. SWAPA makes almost zero effort to fix this. They can’t because half the BOD Is usually in the exact same camp.

The sense of SWA/SWAPA exceptionalism effervesces to irrational levels immediately when anyone steps out of line with the tribal chants even if it’s just to help guide others when they ask for a opinion. You will encounter this everywhere at SWA. For example our mechanics are now over 5 years past their amendable date and still not the least bit prepared for self help. What’s a mediator to do?

So perhaps this sounds good to you or maybe like a somewhat oppressive environment.

If ya kinda hear me now then I’ll wager you’ll have a tuba blowing in your ear later.

Our airline is run very well from the management side of things. Perhaps too well in certain regards, if that’s even possible. They know how to capture the profits and that’s a good thing.

***You’ll be up against the best of the best at contract time with a stacked deck from the hiring process and SWAPA at your service.*** (foot stomp!!)

During our last 4 years past amendable date contract funhouse festival our CEO had previously served on Obama’s job counsel for a spell, headed up A4A, and then hired Randy Babbit as the lead company labor guy (Former FAA administrator and former ALPA prez for young guys) This for a pilot group completely unwilling to prepare for self help and which never has even begun to do so in the past. That apparently wasn’t enough. They hired Ford-Harrison.

Retirement numbers are another biggie. Upgrades of course and also in the event of a black swan, DL or AA only need to stop hiring and let retirements do the shrinkage.
My suggestion to the OP remains the same: Attempt to seek out and interview a single SWA to DL regretful defector and if there aren’t any to be found ......



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tomgoodman

Get Real,
Your criticisms of SWA/SWAPA may be completely valid, but you stray from the path of credibility when you criticize the pilots who, for their own reasons, disagree with your position. IMHO, it would be much more persuasive if you stick to the former, and eschew the latter. One former airline pilot used to bash the whole profession here on APC, and he made some good points, but lost the audience when he slandered the pilots who kept enjoying the job.

at6d

Get Real, which ALPA carrier were you with?

The Lost Decade produced many pilots hardened by the state the industry was in at the time. Many were at ALPA represented regionals. Many got burned I.e. Eagle and Comair.

Those pilots are now joining the ranks with a veteran knowledge of tough times and union vs. management awareness. Many with a bad taste in their mouth left by ALPA.

There is plenty of turmoil at APA, and ALPA as well.

Sobchak

Yeah..just taxiing to the gate