Any Former Southwest, now Happy Delta Pilots?
12-19-2018, 11:17 AM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 151
Sorry for the spelling typos in last post.
Actually I’m not biter whatsoever. The choices I made were mine. You make the bed you sleep in.
Pathetic? Well if someone who is past V1 can honestly admit they have a regret in order to give perspective in order to potentially help others then okay.
So would it be less pathetic to embrace my current situation with ego attachment, slip into denial, and go on to tell everyone that working at SWA is a wash (compared to some OALs) once domicile locations are factored out?
Thank ALPA (and APA)? You bet your sweet A55 I do, as anyone at SWA should in spades....probably more so than ALPA members themselves.
Every contractual advance of real substance we have ever achieved during my tenure was captured because a ALPA or APA group was so far out in front that the mediator couldn’t ignore it. Our sub industry narrow body results are improvements for us. Sub industry even though we consistently have the best company financials and should be the hands down leader in every segment for narrow body guys.
It’s about to happen again also. AA, DL, and UAL all come up before our 9/2020 amendable date. We have no plan for leverage other than “but look at what they got.” And what some on the outside may not be able to believe is we really only cherry pick those items so that now doing something like a honest 30 year career value comparison would be so ego traumatic for SWAPA that it can’t be broached with integrity. The inbox of things we need for parity is stacked 18 feet. Swapa uses uneducated polls as the work around and the company culture works with that seamlessly. We will again be dragged out years past our date and settle for another sub industry deal like we always have and every time. Spirit is nipping at our heals on their last deal.
The contract stuff is just one facet of a decision but I’m addressing it because of the “Thank ALPA” comment. The pilot group at SWA practically assures our ongoing contractual paradigm won’t ever be fixed.
Actually I’m not biter whatsoever. The choices I made were mine. You make the bed you sleep in.
Pathetic? Well if someone who is past V1 can honestly admit they have a regret in order to give perspective in order to potentially help others then okay.
So would it be less pathetic to embrace my current situation with ego attachment, slip into denial, and go on to tell everyone that working at SWA is a wash (compared to some OALs) once domicile locations are factored out?
Thank ALPA (and APA)? You bet your sweet A55 I do, as anyone at SWA should in spades....probably more so than ALPA members themselves.
Every contractual advance of real substance we have ever achieved during my tenure was captured because a ALPA or APA group was so far out in front that the mediator couldn’t ignore it. Our sub industry narrow body results are improvements for us. Sub industry even though we consistently have the best company financials and should be the hands down leader in every segment for narrow body guys.
It’s about to happen again also. AA, DL, and UAL all come up before our 9/2020 amendable date. We have no plan for leverage other than “but look at what they got.” And what some on the outside may not be able to believe is we really only cherry pick those items so that now doing something like a honest 30 year career value comparison would be so ego traumatic for SWAPA that it can’t be broached with integrity. The inbox of things we need for parity is stacked 18 feet. Swapa uses uneducated polls as the work around and the company culture works with that seamlessly. We will again be dragged out years past our date and settle for another sub industry deal like we always have and every time. Spirit is nipping at our heals on their last deal.
The contract stuff is just one facet of a decision but I’m addressing it because of the “Thank ALPA” comment. The pilot group at SWA practically assures our ongoing contractual paradigm won’t ever be fixed.
12-19-2018, 11:18 AM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
Sorry for the spelling typos in last post.
Actually I’m not biter whatsoever. The choices I made were mine. You make the bed you sleep in.
Pathetic? Well if someone who is past V1 can honestly admit they have a regret in order to give perspective in order to potentially help others then okay.
So would it be less pathetic to embrace my current situation with ego attachment, slip into denial, and go on to tell everyone that working at SWA is a wash (compared to some OALs) once domicile locations are factored out?
Thank ALPA (and APA)? You bet your sweet A55 I do, as anyone at SWA should in spades....probably more so than ALPA members themselves.
Every contractual advance of real substance we have ever achieved during my tenure was captured because a ALPA or APA group was so far out in front that the mediator couldn’t ignore it. Our sub industry narrow body results are improvements for us. Sub industry even though we consistently have the best company financials and should be the hands down leader in every segment for narrow body guys.
It’s about to happen again also. AA, DL, and UAL all come up before our 9/2020 amendable date. We have no plan for leverage other than “but look at what they got.” And what some on the outside may not be able to believe is we really only cherry pick those items so that now doing something like a honest 30 year career value comparison would be so ego traumatic for SWAPA that it can’t be broached with integrity. The inbox of things we need for parity is stacked 18 feet. Swapa uses uneducated polls as the work around and the company culture works with that seamlessly. We will again be dragged out years past our date and settle for another sub industry deal like we always have and every time. Spirit is nipping at our heals on their last deal.
The contract stuff is just one facet of a decision but I’m addressing it because of the “Thank ALPA” comment. The pilot group at SWA practically assures our ongoing contractual paradigm won’t ever be fixed.
Actually I’m not biter whatsoever. The choices I made were mine. You make the bed you sleep in.
Pathetic? Well if someone who is past V1 can honestly admit they have a regret in order to give perspective in order to potentially help others then okay.
So would it be less pathetic to embrace my current situation with ego attachment, slip into denial, and go on to tell everyone that working at SWA is a wash (compared to some OALs) once domicile locations are factored out?
Thank ALPA (and APA)? You bet your sweet A55 I do, as anyone at SWA should in spades....probably more so than ALPA members themselves.
Every contractual advance of real substance we have ever achieved during my tenure was captured because a ALPA or APA group was so far out in front that the mediator couldn’t ignore it. Our sub industry narrow body results are improvements for us. Sub industry even though we consistently have the best company financials and should be the hands down leader in every segment for narrow body guys.
It’s about to happen again also. AA, DL, and UAL all come up before our 9/2020 amendable date. We have no plan for leverage other than “but look at what they got.” And what some on the outside may not be able to believe is we really only cherry pick those items so that now doing something like a honest 30 year career value comparison would be so ego traumatic for SWAPA that it can’t be broached with integrity. The inbox of things we need for parity is stacked 18 feet. Swapa uses uneducated polls as the work around and the company culture works with that seamlessly. We will again be dragged out years past our date and settle for another sub industry deal like we always have and every time. Spirit is nipping at our heals on their last deal.
The contract stuff is just one facet of a decision but I’m addressing it because of the “Thank ALPA” comment. The pilot group at SWA practically assures our ongoing contractual paradigm won’t ever be fixed.
12-19-2018, 11:34 AM
#183
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 50
Unfortunately all I can do is say thanks.
Thank you.
12-19-2018, 11:47 AM
#184
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 50
The OP said he was trying to remove Stockholm Syndrome from his decision. Well stated.
12-19-2018, 12:07 PM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,650
Get Real does not represent the majority of SWA pilots (thank goodness) and their thinking. Like most eternally bitter pilots, he is more than happy to complain but when it comes time to pick up an oar, I bet he is still in the cheap seats.
I am guessing he came to SWA through an acquisition and has some bitterness about his current situation.
It isn’t perfect, but SWA is a great place to work just like Delta, United, and a host of other airlines. The whole my airline is better than your airline thing is stupid anyway. Where you work given the choice is a dinner table decision, not a forum one.
I am guessing he came to SWA through an acquisition and has some bitterness about his current situation.
It isn’t perfect, but SWA is a great place to work just like Delta, United, and a host of other airlines. The whole my airline is better than your airline thing is stupid anyway. Where you work given the choice is a dinner table decision, not a forum one.
12-19-2018, 12:09 PM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,650
12-19-2018, 12:37 PM
#187
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 50
Get Real does not represent the majority of SWA pilots (thank goodness) and their thinking. Like most eternally bitter pilots, he is more than happy to complain but when it comes time to pick up an oar, I bet he is still in the cheap seats.
I am guessing he came to SWA through an acquisition and has some bitterness about his current situation.
It isn’t perfect, but SWA is a great place to work just like Delta, United, and a host of other airlines. The whole my airline is better than your airline thing is stupid anyway. Where you work given the choice is a dinner table decision, not a forum one.
I am guessing he came to SWA through an acquisition and has some bitterness about his current situation.
It isn’t perfect, but SWA is a great place to work just like Delta, United, and a host of other airlines. The whole my airline is better than your airline thing is stupid anyway. Where you work given the choice is a dinner table decision, not a forum one.
I pick up the oar each and every time..everytime.
Again I’m not biter. I was hired at SWA organically. So wrong on both counts.
So with that out of the way take a look at what you will be surrounded by. “This is all just silly talk. It’s stupid to compare anyway”, etc etc. Just like any cult member they can’t be told they are acting cultish in real time. The poster takes it as an ego affront explaining that I’m implying an airline is better than another rather than looking at facts and failed the professional responsibilities of his brethren.
SWA is arguably the best airline from a spreadsheet standpoint. That’s an upside for candidates to consider. It’s not captured upon by our group well though or in relation to our peers. There are real reasons for that. It’s not some fluke that will be worked out over time. That is very unlikely.
But check out the reaction. That in itself is big thing anyone with the luxury of a choice like SWA vs. Delta should definitely consider. You will be rewarded with support from your peers only if what you say falls in line with popular diatribe which is formed by a corporation and union which worked together synergistically on it, facts outside of SWA world ignored...and to ludicrous levels. For trying to make the profession better and the lives of our members and their family on par with that of our peers.
12-19-2018, 12:40 PM
#189
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 33
Don't you miss SWA's unrivaled scheduling flexibility? What do you have that comes close to that?
Don't you miss SWA's culture? Doesn't it suck to be at an airline without any culture? Isn't it terrible to be at an airline that's not one big family?
Don't you miss not having to worry about never being furloughed? Did you think about the fact SWA has never furloughed anyone before you jumped ship?
Don't you hate the fact that your peers at SWA have bigger W-2's and probably work fewer days than you do? Doesn't that just eat you up inside?
Don't you dread the day you have to "upgrade" to new equipment and go through a whole new initial training course? We only have to do that once at SWA because we only fly the world's most successful jet airliner: the 737.
Don't you miss SWA's B-Fund? Delta may have a B-Fund, but it's not as good as SWA's B-fund - it can't be.
Don't you miss SWA's unparalleled medical and travel benefits? Our medical coverage is unrivaled in the industry as is our LOL and LTD. And our travel benefits - don't you rue the day you left SWA and gave those up?
And the coup de grace: P - B - S. Ba ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! Suck it Delta!!!!
12-19-2018, 02:01 PM
#190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,650
Your first sentence is correct and that’s part of my main point except to say there is a direct line correlation with increasing seniority and higher percentage of SWA pilots who are less satisfied with their jobs.
I pick up the oar each and every time..everytime.
Again I’m not biter. I was hired at SWA organically. So wrong on both counts.
So with that out of the way take a look at what you will be surrounded by. “This is all just silly talk. It’s stupid to compare anyway”, etc etc. Just like any cult member they can’t be told they are acting cultish in real time. The poster takes it as an ego affront explaining that I’m implying an airline is better than another rather than looking at facts and failed the professional responsibilities of his brethren.
SWA is arguably the best airline from a spreadsheet standpoint. That’s an upside for candidates to consider. It’s not captured upon by our group well though or in relation to our peers. There are real reasons for that. It’s not some fluke that will be worked out over time. That is very unlikely.
But check out the reaction. That in itself is big thing anyone with the luxury of a choice like SWA vs. Delta should definitely consider. You will be rewarded with support from your peers only if what you say falls in line with popular diatribe which is formed by a corporation and union which worked together synergistically on it, facts outside of SWA world ignored...and to ludicrous levels. For trying to make the profession better and the lives of our members and their family on par with that of our peers.
I pick up the oar each and every time..everytime.
Again I’m not biter. I was hired at SWA organically. So wrong on both counts.
So with that out of the way take a look at what you will be surrounded by. “This is all just silly talk. It’s stupid to compare anyway”, etc etc. Just like any cult member they can’t be told they are acting cultish in real time. The poster takes it as an ego affront explaining that I’m implying an airline is better than another rather than looking at facts and failed the professional responsibilities of his brethren.
SWA is arguably the best airline from a spreadsheet standpoint. That’s an upside for candidates to consider. It’s not captured upon by our group well though or in relation to our peers. There are real reasons for that. It’s not some fluke that will be worked out over time. That is very unlikely.
But check out the reaction. That in itself is big thing anyone with the luxury of a choice like SWA vs. Delta should definitely consider. You will be rewarded with support from your peers only if what you say falls in line with popular diatribe which is formed by a corporation and union which worked together synergistically on it, facts outside of SWA world ignored...and to ludicrous levels. For trying to make the profession better and the lives of our members and their family on par with that of our peers.
My apologies then for the false assumptions.
You sound like a bitter a hole in your posts.
My experience here at SWA is far from what you describe. The vast majority of pilots don’t buy in to the “culture” BS that seeps out of Dallas. We have our few for sure, but that is at every airline.
SWAPA 2.0 is doing plenty of heavy lifting and the vast majority of pilots are right there pulling their part of the sled. The very fact that the outstanding grievances and SBOAs scheduled is now so great as to fill a page of the Union rag should tell anyone here how great that culture is working for the pilots.
The “my airline is better than yours” is and remains a silly and stupid discussion. What makes this airline great for many will make it suck for some.
This industry is so cyclical, there is no telling where this thread would be in 10 years from now.
I said it before and I will say it again. They are both great places to work. That’s not kool aid, it is just reality. I tell my job seeking friends the good and bad parts of working here and let them make their own decisions like adults.
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