Any Former Southwest, now Happy Delta Pilots?
12-18-2018, 07:49 AM
#171
Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,807
Age 65 was the ultimate jobs-costing change in recent memory. Clearly that affected not only those wishing to be hired, but those already on the seniority list at nearly every level. Efficiencies and the resulting job losses may feel nebulous to quantify, but don't kid yourself that your life and your earnings aren't affected... even if you already sit above 50%
12-18-2018, 08:10 AM
#173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,757
(I think about this when retirement RMD discussions pop up too. A big pot of money doesn’t do any good to buy that wakeboard boat at age 80.)
12-18-2018, 08:16 AM
#174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Let’s just fly 72hrs a month everyone, no pick WS, no GS, no Out of base WS/GS.
It’s like those that say “don’t pick up white slips, that’s taking green slip from others”. Everybody have to play their own game. Those that want extra money, can play the game.
Seems that you’re angry because you can’t hold these deals.
Do you think the company likes to pay 3 times or just pay straight because they hide a trip from the FOs? The company would love to keep those trips in open time and just assign the training pilot to it.
All these “job costing” are just excuses. Same excuses that when someone says “we should get monthly vacancy bids” and then some mid seniority person starts screaming “seniority abrogration”.
12-19-2018, 02:57 AM
#175
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 50
The OP should take this challenge. Can you find anyone at all who made the SWA to Delta transition who now regrets it?
After that, try to find anyone who made the SWA to FedEx, UPS, UAL, or AA move in the last 10 years who now regrets it. Be sure to get that straight from the source not from a SWA pilot who knows “this guy” or “has this friend” or “heard”.
There are places which afford a pilot a career they can grow into commiserate with age, taking those honed contractual items as they come at hopefully just the right time.
Another particular place in which you likely could grow out of, and one which in all practically shows no sign of any collective commitment to do what it takes for an industry contract to make any of it better despite decades of record profits and decades of past amendable date operations.
It takes a special kind of “pilot” to not grow out of a long career at SWA. I use that term loosely.
A special kind of pilot group to be slow rolled years on each contact and never even consider taking a strike vote let alone anything else. A special kind of pilot to fly 4 legs a day in a guppy for 25 years under the related work rules ( the shards achieved from riding ALPA’s coattails) and not want to make it better enough to do anything about it and instead engage in denial to make themselves feel better about it all. The culture is designed to help you delude yourself to make that process more streamlined and doable. In fact it will make you downright proud of it if the hired the right guy they are so good at doing.
The interview does a fair job of determining the easily co-opted “pilots” who won’t grow out of all those things which are “different” at SW. Management uses buzzwords like they hire for “Soft Skills”.
For the rest...well they just gotta tough it out somehow once that seniorityometer is past V1 and they then realize they should have tried bail sooner in the game yet after it’s too late.
The Stepford smiles of myriad SWA pilots has a lot to do with factors many pilots on the outside can’t begin to fathom. Think Amway culture with Proctor & Gamble’s spreadsheet.
In my opinion anyone making this particular decision needs to be thinking about a hell of a lot more than just where they want to live.
Last edited by Get Real; 12-19-2018 at 03:17 AM.
12-19-2018, 03:48 AM
#176
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
It takes a special kind of “pilot” to not grow out of a long career at SWA. I use that term loosely.
A special kind of pilot group to be slow rolled years on each contact and never even consider taking a strike vote let alone anything else. A special kind of pilot to fly 4 legs a day in a guppy for 25 years under the related work rules ( the shards achieved from riding ALPA’s coattails) and not want to make it better enough to do anything about it and instead engage in denial to make themselves feel better about it all. The culture is designed to help you delude yourself to make that process more streamlined and doable. In fact it will make you downright proud of it if the hired the right guy they are so good at doing.
12-19-2018, 05:18 AM
#177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 659
I disagree. This one is not that simple at all. There are many things that are, umm, “unique” about SWA.
The OP should take this challenge. Can you find anyone at all who made the SWA to Delta transition who now regrets it?
After that, try to find anyone who made the SWA to FedEx, UPS, UAL, or AA move in the last 10 years who now regrets it. Be sure to get that straight from the source not from a SWA pilot who knows “this guy” or “has this friend” or “heard”.
There are places which afford a pilot a career they can grow into commiserate with age, taking those honed contractual items as they come at hopefully just the right time.
Another particular place in which you likely could grow out of, and one which in all practically shows no sign of any collective commitment to do what it takes for an industry contract to make any of it better despite decades of record profits and decades of past amendable date operations.
It takes a special kind of “pilot” to not grow out of a long career at SWA. I use that term loosely.
A special kind of pilot group to be slow rolled years on each contact and never even consider taking a strike vote let alone anything else. A special kind of pilot to fly 4 legs a day in a guppy for 25 years under the related work rules ( the shards achieved from riding ALPA’s coattails) and not want to make it better enough to do anything about it and instead engage in denial to make themselves feel better about it all. The culture is designed to help you delude yourself to make that process more streamlined and doable. In fact it will make you downright proud of it if the hired the right guy they are so good at doing.
The interview does a fair job of determining the easily co-opted “pilots” who won’t grow out of all those things which are “different” at SW. Management uses buzzwords like they hire for “Soft Skills”.
For the rest...well they just gotta tough it out somehow once that seniorityometer is past V1 and they then realize they should have tried bail sooner in the game yet after it’s too late.
The Stepford smiles of myriad SWA pilots has a lot to do with factors many pilots on the outside can’t begin to fathom. Think Amway culture with Proctor & Gamble’s spreadsheet.
In my opinion anyone making this particular decision needs to be thinking about a hell of a lot more than just where they want to live.
The OP should take this challenge. Can you find anyone at all who made the SWA to Delta transition who now regrets it?
After that, try to find anyone who made the SWA to FedEx, UPS, UAL, or AA move in the last 10 years who now regrets it. Be sure to get that straight from the source not from a SWA pilot who knows “this guy” or “has this friend” or “heard”.
There are places which afford a pilot a career they can grow into commiserate with age, taking those honed contractual items as they come at hopefully just the right time.
Another particular place in which you likely could grow out of, and one which in all practically shows no sign of any collective commitment to do what it takes for an industry contract to make any of it better despite decades of record profits and decades of past amendable date operations.
It takes a special kind of “pilot” to not grow out of a long career at SWA. I use that term loosely.
A special kind of pilot group to be slow rolled years on each contact and never even consider taking a strike vote let alone anything else. A special kind of pilot to fly 4 legs a day in a guppy for 25 years under the related work rules ( the shards achieved from riding ALPA’s coattails) and not want to make it better enough to do anything about it and instead engage in denial to make themselves feel better about it all. The culture is designed to help you delude yourself to make that process more streamlined and doable. In fact it will make you downright proud of it if the hired the right guy they are so good at doing.
The interview does a fair job of determining the easily co-opted “pilots” who won’t grow out of all those things which are “different” at SW. Management uses buzzwords like they hire for “Soft Skills”.
For the rest...well they just gotta tough it out somehow once that seniorityometer is past V1 and they then realize they should have tried bail sooner in the game yet after it’s too late.
The Stepford smiles of myriad SWA pilots has a lot to do with factors many pilots on the outside can’t begin to fathom. Think Amway culture with Proctor & Gamble’s spreadsheet.
In my opinion anyone making this particular decision needs to be thinking about a hell of a lot more than just where they want to live.
12-19-2018, 09:57 AM
#179
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,781
I disagree. This one is not that simple at all. There are many things that are, umm, “unique” about SWA.
The OP should take this challenge. Can you find anyone at all who made the SWA to Delta transition who now regrets it?
After that, try to find anyone who made the SWA to FedEx, UPS, UAL, or AA move in the last 10 years who now regrets it. Be sure to get that straight from the source not from a SWA pilot who knows “this guy” or “has this friend” or “heard”.
There are places which afford a pilot a career they can grow into commiserate with age, taking those honed contractual items as they come at hopefully just the right time.
Another particular place in which you likely could grow out of, and one which in all practically shows no sign of any collective commitment to do what it takes for an industry contract to make any of it better despite decades of record profits and decades of past amendable date operations.
It takes a special kind of “pilot” to not grow out of a long career at SWA. I use that term loosely.
A special kind of pilot group to be slow rolled years on each contact and never even consider taking a strike vote let alone anything else. A special kind of pilot to fly 4 legs a day in a guppy for 25 years under the related work rules ( the shards achieved from riding ALPA’s coattails) and not want to make it better enough to do anything about it and instead engage in denial to make themselves feel better about it all. The culture is designed to help you delude yourself to make that process more streamlined and doable. In fact it will make you downright proud of it if the hired the right guy they are so good at doing.
The interview does a fair job of determining the easily co-opted “pilots” who won’t grow out of all those things which are “different” at SW. Management uses buzzwords like they hire for “Soft Skills”.
For the rest...well they just gotta tough it out somehow once that seniorityometer is past V1 and they then realize they should have tried bail sooner in the game yet after it’s too late.
The Stepford smiles of myriad SWA pilots has a lot to do with factors many pilots on the outside can’t begin to fathom. Think Amway culture with Proctor & Gamble’s spreadsheet.
In my opinion anyone making this particular decision needs to be thinking about a hell of a lot more than just where they want to live.
The OP should take this challenge. Can you find anyone at all who made the SWA to Delta transition who now regrets it?
After that, try to find anyone who made the SWA to FedEx, UPS, UAL, or AA move in the last 10 years who now regrets it. Be sure to get that straight from the source not from a SWA pilot who knows “this guy” or “has this friend” or “heard”.
There are places which afford a pilot a career they can grow into commiserate with age, taking those honed contractual items as they come at hopefully just the right time.
Another particular place in which you likely could grow out of, and one which in all practically shows no sign of any collective commitment to do what it takes for an industry contract to make any of it better despite decades of record profits and decades of past amendable date operations.
It takes a special kind of “pilot” to not grow out of a long career at SWA. I use that term loosely.
A special kind of pilot group to be slow rolled years on each contact and never even consider taking a strike vote let alone anything else. A special kind of pilot to fly 4 legs a day in a guppy for 25 years under the related work rules ( the shards achieved from riding ALPA’s coattails) and not want to make it better enough to do anything about it and instead engage in denial to make themselves feel better about it all. The culture is designed to help you delude yourself to make that process more streamlined and doable. In fact it will make you downright proud of it if the hired the right guy they are so good at doing.
The interview does a fair job of determining the easily co-opted “pilots” who won’t grow out of all those things which are “different” at SW. Management uses buzzwords like they hire for “Soft Skills”.
For the rest...well they just gotta tough it out somehow once that seniorityometer is past V1 and they then realize they should have tried bail sooner in the game yet after it’s too late.
The Stepford smiles of myriad SWA pilots has a lot to do with factors many pilots on the outside can’t begin to fathom. Think Amway culture with Proctor & Gamble’s spreadsheet.
In my opinion anyone making this particular decision needs to be thinking about a hell of a lot more than just where they want to live.
And why call us “pilots” in quotes?
I always knew I was special!
Uh, thanks ALPA? I guess?
12-19-2018, 11:03 AM
#180
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 50
Sorry for the spelling typos in last post.
Actually I’m not biter whatsoever. The choices I made were mine. You make the bed you sleep in.
Pathetic? Well if someone who is past V1 can honestly admit they have a regret in order to give perspective in order to potentially help others then okay.
So would it be less pathetic to embrace my current situation with ego attachment, slip into denial, and go on to tell everyone that working at SWA is a wash (compared to some OALs) once domicile locations are factored out?
Thank ALPA (and APA)? You bet your sweet A55 I do, as anyone at SWA should in spades....probably more so than ALPA members themselves.
Every contractual advance of real substance we have ever achieved during my tenure was captured because a ALPA or APA group was so far out in front that the mediator couldn’t ignore it. Our sub industry narrow body results are improvements for us. Sub industry even though we consistently have the best company financials and should be the hands down leader in every segment for narrow body guys.
It’s about to happen again also. AA, DL, and UAL all come up before our 9/2020 amendable date. We have no plan for leverage other than “but look at what they got.” And what some on the outside may not be able to believe is we really only cherry pick those items so that now doing something like a honest 30 year career value comparison would be so ego traumatic for SWAPA that it can’t be broached with integrity. The inbox of things we need for parity is stacked 18 feet. Swapa uses uneducated polls as the work around and the company culture works with that seamlessly. We will again be dragged out years past our date and settle for another sub industry deal like we always have and every time. Spirit is nipping at our heals on their last deal.
The contract stuff is just one facet of a decision but I’m addressing it because of the “Thank ALPA” comment. The pilot group at SWA practically assures our ongoing contractual paradigm won’t ever be fixed.
Actually I’m not biter whatsoever. The choices I made were mine. You make the bed you sleep in.
Pathetic? Well if someone who is past V1 can honestly admit they have a regret in order to give perspective in order to potentially help others then okay.
So would it be less pathetic to embrace my current situation with ego attachment, slip into denial, and go on to tell everyone that working at SWA is a wash (compared to some OALs) once domicile locations are factored out?
Thank ALPA (and APA)? You bet your sweet A55 I do, as anyone at SWA should in spades....probably more so than ALPA members themselves.
Every contractual advance of real substance we have ever achieved during my tenure was captured because a ALPA or APA group was so far out in front that the mediator couldn’t ignore it. Our sub industry narrow body results are improvements for us. Sub industry even though we consistently have the best company financials and should be the hands down leader in every segment for narrow body guys.
It’s about to happen again also. AA, DL, and UAL all come up before our 9/2020 amendable date. We have no plan for leverage other than “but look at what they got.” And what some on the outside may not be able to believe is we really only cherry pick those items so that now doing something like a honest 30 year career value comparison would be so ego traumatic for SWAPA that it can’t be broached with integrity. The inbox of things we need for parity is stacked 18 feet. Swapa uses uneducated polls as the work around and the company culture works with that seamlessly. We will again be dragged out years past our date and settle for another sub industry deal like we always have and every time. Spirit is nipping at our heals on their last deal.
The contract stuff is just one facet of a decision but I’m addressing it because of the “Thank ALPA” comment. The pilot group at SWA practically assures our ongoing contractual paradigm won’t ever be fixed.
Last edited by Get Real; 12-19-2018 at 11:13 AM.
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