Any Former Southwest, now Happy Delta Pilots?
12-17-2018, 11:50 AM
#161
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
As always, the pendulum seems to swing wildly in either direction.
12-17-2018, 04:31 PM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
You got that right.
This grand illusion that everyone can theoretically triple dip because a tiny fraction can is costing us all jobs and the company loves it.
Not to mention that we got that benefit back by throwing new hires under the bus (which also cost us jobs) but obvsly they need to shut up and pay them dues etc.
I get the emotional lure of sea lawyer "good deals" like this. Just like the pump and dump lump sump crowd played money ball for a year or three and punched out for life. Municipals will literally riot before they give that up and hey, why not, its free money.
For us though, there's a cost to these kinds of things. I wouldn't just give it away for justice etc. But why should we pay (and we do) for a massive benefit for a tiny few when the entire group is still lacking across the board?
Of course triple dip tricks are supposedly the reason why everyone rockets swiftly up the list to hold 7 figure 350 hedge fund baller gigs.
If you get bought off, full pay and no obligation, I'm fine with that being enough.
This grand illusion that everyone can theoretically triple dip because a tiny fraction can is costing us all jobs and the company loves it.
Not to mention that we got that benefit back by throwing new hires under the bus (which also cost us jobs) but obvsly they need to shut up and pay them dues etc.
I get the emotional lure of sea lawyer "good deals" like this. Just like the pump and dump lump sump crowd played money ball for a year or three and punched out for life. Municipals will literally riot before they give that up and hey, why not, its free money.
For us though, there's a cost to these kinds of things. I wouldn't just give it away for justice etc. But why should we pay (and we do) for a massive benefit for a tiny few when the entire group is still lacking across the board?
Of course triple dip tricks are supposedly the reason why everyone rockets swiftly up the list to hold 7 figure 350 hedge fund baller gigs.
If you get bought off, full pay and no obligation, I'm fine with that being enough.
And I have yuge news for you. In this next contract, newhires won't be the ones that are anywhere near bus wheels.
12-17-2018, 04:32 PM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: A350 Both
Posts: 7,292
TA1 said that company could pull trips that LCA bid on and make them unavailable to PBS for the FO's for the express purpose of training, thereby eliminating them as available trips to the FO's right from the start.
As always, the pendulum seems to swing wildly in either direction.
As always, the pendulum seems to swing wildly in either direction.
12-17-2018, 07:52 PM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,760
Just as luv recalls, TA1 had the provision where LCA-bid trips would be pulled from the pot before the monthly B PBS was run. The hugely toxic fact that the trip couldn’t be bid on by any copilots (in addition to the hope for the B getting released from said trip with pay), was a big hurdle for the memrat.
12-18-2018, 06:20 AM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
12-18-2018, 07:05 AM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,371
You got that right.
This grand illusion that everyone can theoretically triple dip because a tiny fraction can is costing us all jobs and the company loves it.
Not to mention that we got that benefit back by throwing new hires under the bus (which also cost us jobs) but obvsly they need to shut up and pay them dues etc.
I get the emotional lure of sea lawyer "good deals" like this. Just like the pump and dump lump sump crowd played money ball for a year or three and punched out for life. Municipals will literally riot before they give that up and hey, why not, its free money.
For us though, there's a cost to these kinds of things. I wouldn't just give it away for justice etc. But why should we pay (and we do) for a massive benefit for a tiny few when the entire group is still lacking across the board?
Of course triple dip tricks are supposedly the reason why everyone rockets swiftly up the list to hold 7 figure 350 hedge fund baller gigs.
If you get bought off, full pay and no obligation, I'm fine with that being enough.
This grand illusion that everyone can theoretically triple dip because a tiny fraction can is costing us all jobs and the company loves it.
Not to mention that we got that benefit back by throwing new hires under the bus (which also cost us jobs) but obvsly they need to shut up and pay them dues etc.
I get the emotional lure of sea lawyer "good deals" like this. Just like the pump and dump lump sump crowd played money ball for a year or three and punched out for life. Municipals will literally riot before they give that up and hey, why not, its free money.
For us though, there's a cost to these kinds of things. I wouldn't just give it away for justice etc. But why should we pay (and we do) for a massive benefit for a tiny few when the entire group is still lacking across the board?
Of course triple dip tricks are supposedly the reason why everyone rockets swiftly up the list to hold 7 figure 350 hedge fund baller gigs.
If you get bought off, full pay and no obligation, I'm fine with that being enough.
It’s like those that say “don’t pick up white slips, that’s taking green slip from others”. Everybody have to play their own game. Those that want extra money, can play the game.
Personally I’ve only triple dipped once. It worked out for my commute, so I did it. Other times I just pass the opportunity because I enjoy my time home. But these good things in our contract have to stay. Those who are workaholics can keep making all the money they want.
Seems that you’re angry because you can’t hold these deals.
Do you think the company likes to pay 3 times or just pay straight because they hide a trip from the FOs? The company would love to keep those trips in open time and just assign the training pilot to it.
All these “job costing” are just excuses. Same excuses that when someone says “we should get monthly vacancy bids” and then some mid seniority person starts screaming “seniority abrogration”.
12-18-2018, 07:16 AM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,238
With this line of thinking, just get rid of the premium pay all along then. Let’s just fly 72hrs a month everyone, no pick WS, no GS, no Out of base WS/GS.
It’s like those that say “don’t pick up white slips, that’s taking green slip from others”. Everybody have to play their own game. Those that want extra money, can play the game.
Personally I’ve only triple dipped once. It worked out for my commute, so I did it. Other times I just pass the opportunity because I enjoy my time home. But these good things in our contract have to stay. Those who are workaholics can keep making all the money they want.
Seems that you’re angry because you can’t hold these deals.
Do you think the company likes to pay 3 times or just pay straight because they hide a trip from the FOs? The company would love to keep those trips in open time and just assign the training pilot to it.
All these “job costing” are just excuses. Same excuses that when someone says “we should get monthly vacancy bids” and then some mid seniority person starts screaming “seniority abrogration”.
It’s like those that say “don’t pick up white slips, that’s taking green slip from others”. Everybody have to play their own game. Those that want extra money, can play the game.
Personally I’ve only triple dipped once. It worked out for my commute, so I did it. Other times I just pass the opportunity because I enjoy my time home. But these good things in our contract have to stay. Those who are workaholics can keep making all the money they want.
Seems that you’re angry because you can’t hold these deals.
Do you think the company likes to pay 3 times or just pay straight because they hide a trip from the FOs? The company would love to keep those trips in open time and just assign the training pilot to it.
All these “job costing” are just excuses. Same excuses that when someone says “we should get monthly vacancy bids” and then some mid seniority person starts screaming “seniority abrogration”.
12-18-2018, 07:28 AM
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,994
Your question is an extreme one with an obvious answer, "No." Less clear is if a 5% paycut might be worth advancing 10% up your category list, or making your next big jump to another category (or first captain upgrade) 6 months earlier than you could otherwise.
Age 65 was the ultimate jobs-costing change in recent memory. Clearly that affected not only those wishing to be hired, but those already on the seniority list at nearly every level. Efficiencies and the resulting job losses may feel nebulous to quantify, but don't kid yourself that your life and your earnings aren't affected... even if you already sit above 50%
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