Vacation
10-02-2018, 08:56 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Road construction signholder
Posts: 2,431
I am not sure how it worked, but I am sure that Sailing can chime in.
As for the history of the Authorized Personal Drop, it was originally crafted outside of Section 6 as part of the original Scheduling Optimization Team in the late 90s. It was later incorporated into the PWA. At no time did the APD ever pay--though its predecessor did.
10-02-2018, 10:03 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Because our current pathetically low credit is insufficient. This really needs to be explained? Why do we want higher hourly rates? Rigs? Anything for that matter?
Let's go to 12 weeks at 1.4ish a day. Yay, more time off! When the vacation "week" values are too low, it forces compression into one's remaining days to get the appropriate credit. It really needs to be 5:15 a day, but I think 4.5 is more realistic this time around. If its not even 4.0, yet they instead focus on an additional week for a tiny percentage of the pilot group mostly for a small number of remaining years, I'll view that as our NC being complicit, wittingly or simply being out maneuvered at the table, with management's overall strategy of FUD and division and an attempt to pop chaff and distract us from one of the biggest shortcomings in our contract.
Increasing the daily vacation credit should be where 100% of that "negotiating capital" or whatever you call it goes. Even that disproportionately effects senior pilots because by definition they are at the higher tiers for more weeks anyway. But to add another week at our crappy daily levels while not addressing our anemic daily credit for vacation would not be viewed well by the membership overall IMO because it would ONLY benefit a tiny portion of the group while attempting to be sold as a subsection gain.
Not to mention the 6th week strategy (assuming the daily credit remains grossly anemic and the week is only applied to a tiny fraction of the pilot group) would be a drag chute on the entire TA for the vast majority of the pilot group. That doesn't mean the whole thing will sink guaranteed (it'll depend on other things obviously) but why would we swing and miss so badly on one of the biggest shortcomings of our current book?
Let's go to 12 weeks at 1.4ish a day. Yay, more time off! When the vacation "week" values are too low, it forces compression into one's remaining days to get the appropriate credit. It really needs to be 5:15 a day, but I think 4.5 is more realistic this time around. If its not even 4.0, yet they instead focus on an additional week for a tiny percentage of the pilot group mostly for a small number of remaining years, I'll view that as our NC being complicit, wittingly or simply being out maneuvered at the table, with management's overall strategy of FUD and division and an attempt to pop chaff and distract us from one of the biggest shortcomings in our contract.
Increasing the daily vacation credit should be where 100% of that "negotiating capital" or whatever you call it goes. Even that disproportionately effects senior pilots because by definition they are at the higher tiers for more weeks anyway. But to add another week at our crappy daily levels while not addressing our anemic daily credit for vacation would not be viewed well by the membership overall IMO because it would ONLY benefit a tiny portion of the group while attempting to be sold as a subsection gain.
Not to mention the 6th week strategy (assuming the daily credit remains grossly anemic and the week is only applied to a tiny fraction of the pilot group) would be a drag chute on the entire TA for the vast majority of the pilot group. That doesn't mean the whole thing will sink guaranteed (it'll depend on other things obviously) but why would we swing and miss so badly on one of the biggest shortcomings of our current book?
10-02-2018, 10:17 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,456
Current vacation needs to available to more pilots at higher values before an additional February vacation is added. More desirable weeks available at a normal (5:15) days pay first. I can already get as much January, February, September and October vacation as I will ever care to take.
10-02-2018, 10:44 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
You got three days to drop in one grouping. Whatever those 3 days paid you got. 3 day trip paying 21 hours you got 21 hours pay. 3 day trip paying 12 hours you got 12 hours pay. If trip was longer than 3 days you got paid for the first 3 days.
10-02-2018, 01:02 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,995
Because our current pathetically low credit is insufficient. This really needs to be explained? Why do we want higher hourly rates? Rigs? Anything for that matter?
Let's go to 12 weeks at 1.4ish a day. Yay, more time off! When the vacation "week" values are too low, it forces compression into one's remaining days to get the appropriate credit. It really needs to be 5:15 a day, but I think 4.5 is more realistic this time around. If its not even 4.0, yet they instead focus on an additional week for a tiny percentage of the pilot group mostly for a small number of remaining years, I'll view that as our NC being complicit, wittingly or simply being out maneuvered at the table, with management's overall strategy of FUD and division and an attempt to pop chaff and distract us from one of the biggest shortcomings in our contract.
Increasing the daily vacation credit should be where 100% of that "negotiating capital" or whatever you call it goes. Even that disproportionately effects senior pilots because by definition they are at the higher tiers for more weeks anyway. But to add another week at our crappy daily levels while not addressing our anemic daily credit for vacation would not be viewed well by the membership overall IMO because it would ONLY benefit a tiny portion of the group while attempting to be sold as a subsection gain.
Not to mention the 6th week strategy (assuming the daily credit remains grossly anemic and the week is only applied to a tiny fraction of the pilot group) would be a drag chute on the entire TA for the vast majority of the pilot group. That doesn't mean the whole thing will sink guaranteed (it'll depend on other things obviously) but why would we swing and miss so badly on one of the biggest shortcomings of our current book?
Let's go to 12 weeks at 1.4ish a day. Yay, more time off! When the vacation "week" values are too low, it forces compression into one's remaining days to get the appropriate credit. It really needs to be 5:15 a day, but I think 4.5 is more realistic this time around. If its not even 4.0, yet they instead focus on an additional week for a tiny percentage of the pilot group mostly for a small number of remaining years, I'll view that as our NC being complicit, wittingly or simply being out maneuvered at the table, with management's overall strategy of FUD and division and an attempt to pop chaff and distract us from one of the biggest shortcomings in our contract.
Increasing the daily vacation credit should be where 100% of that "negotiating capital" or whatever you call it goes. Even that disproportionately effects senior pilots because by definition they are at the higher tiers for more weeks anyway. But to add another week at our crappy daily levels while not addressing our anemic daily credit for vacation would not be viewed well by the membership overall IMO because it would ONLY benefit a tiny portion of the group while attempting to be sold as a subsection gain.
Not to mention the 6th week strategy (assuming the daily credit remains grossly anemic and the week is only applied to a tiny fraction of the pilot group) would be a drag chute on the entire TA for the vast majority of the pilot group. That doesn't mean the whole thing will sink guaranteed (it'll depend on other things obviously) but why would we swing and miss so badly on one of the biggest shortcomings of our current book?
As a QOL guy, I'd personally like to start there but also go to 4:15/day. More vacation and better-paying vacation are not mutually exclusive.
When I do a 5-day and 2 days off at present, I get a guarantee of 26:15. At 4:15, my week of vacation becomes almost 30 hours...127.5 hours for 30 days of vacation (not bad, right?). As a low-tier guy, I'd rather have 3 weeks at 4:15 (value=89:15 and three weeks at home) than 2 weeks at 5:15 (value=73:30, two weeks at home). I'd even take 3 weeks at 3:45/day, which would be equivalent to a paid 5-day over what we have now.
I also support forcing the company to distribute more spring and summer weeks and an expansion of IVDs.
10-02-2018, 10:54 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Current vacation needs to available to more pilots at higher values before an additional February vacation is added. More desirable weeks available at a normal (5:15) days pay first. I can already get as much January, February, September and October vacation as I will ever care to take.
I agree with the higher daily value idea.
Denny
10-03-2018, 03:43 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
A extra week of vacation would fully fund 4 IVD days also which are very useful for more time off in the summer.
10-03-2018, 11:11 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Has anyone expressed interest in this sixth-week concept? The only folks I hear mention this do so saying they don't want it but I think it's a straw man...or misunderstood ask. When I say I want an additional week, I mean EVERYONE gets another week. New hires start with 3 weeks instead of 2, 6-11 years get 4 weeks, 12-18 years get 5 and 19+ get 6.
As a QOL guy, I'd personally like to start there but also go to 4:15/day. More vacation and better-paying vacation are not mutually exclusive.
When I do a 5-day and 2 days off at present, I get a guarantee of 26:15. At 4:15, my week of vacation becomes almost 30 hours...127.5 hours for 30 days of vacation (not bad, right?). As a low-tier guy, I'd rather have 3 weeks at 4:15 (value=89:15 and three weeks at home) than 2 weeks at 5:15 (value=73:30, two weeks at home). I'd even take 3 weeks at 3:45/day, which would be equivalent to a paid 5-day over what we have now.
I also support forcing the company to distribute more spring and summer weeks and an expansion of IVDs.
As a QOL guy, I'd personally like to start there but also go to 4:15/day. More vacation and better-paying vacation are not mutually exclusive.
When I do a 5-day and 2 days off at present, I get a guarantee of 26:15. At 4:15, my week of vacation becomes almost 30 hours...127.5 hours for 30 days of vacation (not bad, right?). As a low-tier guy, I'd rather have 3 weeks at 4:15 (value=89:15 and three weeks at home) than 2 weeks at 5:15 (value=73:30, two weeks at home). I'd even take 3 weeks at 3:45/day, which would be equivalent to a paid 5-day over what we have now.
I also support forcing the company to distribute more spring and summer weeks and an expansion of IVDs.
10-05-2018, 05:50 AM
#70
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Or ideally, make it fund 7 IVD's that can be used up to 3x a year, sort of like a floating week of vacation. Company gets to regulate due to demand and pilots get a tool to help control their schedule a little better.
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