tunes

He’s making a point of how low the target returns of the proposed plan are...

GuardPolice

Safety vests. They haven’t been around long enough to look cool.

Trip7

Those Delta Flight Ops branded safety vests look real nice IMO. I'm going to snag one myself when it's for sale on the uniform website

mispoken

And this is my point; you don't need to be a talented investor to beat these proposed returns. I fear that a majority of the group will default to this as "their best option" because they can't be bothered to learn how to do something as simple as passive investing and spend their time picking their fantasy football team. It also somewhat resembles a pension which for some reason, a lot seem to have their sights on. There IS NO ONE and there SHOULD BE NO ONE that has more interest in your financial prosperity and security than YOU. No paid advisor can replace that.

We'd be better off getting everyone a subscription to financial engines (as much as I think their fees are too high) than paying a investment firm to rake us over the coals in fees and low returns with this MBCBP. At least in the case of financial engines, people COULD BE invested properly for their age and they'd be the paltry returns of a MBCBP if they choose to do so. We should give the group the TOOLS they need to make informed decisions, we should not FORCE the group to do anything they don't want to with. If people choose not to use the tools provided, that is their prerogative. If they want to buy boats, ATVs, drones, planes or what have you, that is their prerogative. If they want to work up to mandatory retirement because they want to or because they HAVE to. Their prerogative.

I will not support any plan that takes away my ability to save, spend or invest my money in a way I choose. I do not desire that the union or the pilot group perform my tax planning and decide that NOW is the best time to realize my tax savings. Quite honestly, if I want to pay 40% taxes now and buy a $120k Tesla foregoing saving my profit sharing or my DPSP, that is my choice. If i want to save on taxes now, I can realize tax savings many ways through the DPSP, HSA, 529 or even a Non Qualified Deferred Compensation program that is voluntary.

While I certainly this is about what is best for the group as a whole, it is my opinion that what is best for the group is financial education and literacy. It will pay dividends literally and figuratively for years to come.

That being said, I’m not going to argue with democracy, even if it is ill informed :-)

Trip7

Wholeheartedly agree. With the type of income airline pilots are projected to earn for the foreseeable future, I strongly agree that the R&I Committee's should have financial education and literacy as one of the top priorities.

Overall, the Delta pilot group collectively is an impressive group with very bright and talented people. Many have already recognized that the R&I Committee's Presentation was incredibly flawed and misleading. That are many pilots with professional level knowledge and understanding of Finance. Did they really think this would get past them? If the MBCBP is pursued any further there will be a riot/civil war. Current FB Widget Poll has the MBCBP rejected 236-15.

tomgoodman

We hire financial advisors so that, when our investments tank, we will have a butt other than our own to kick.

notEnuf

In this case at least, I don't think there is an intent to push a plan. The R&I working group has some good heads on it. They are presenting the information for your evaluation. The suite of options idea is the objective. I spoke with one of them. The 5% return target was to minimize the risk of the plan. They fully acknowledge that this is a poor return compared to most investing models. ALPA, as the custodian of the plan, decided addition risk (gain potential) is unacceptable and the tax savings was explained to make up a percentage of the value. The overall total value was their objective while minimizing market risk. They need a risk level at which they can say confidently that the money would be there in perpetuity.

Fire away...
The messenger.

Trip7

The flawed presentation(MBCBP Investment gains shown with zero tax compared to DPSP Cash) , combined with how hard many reps are pushing it(SLC CA Rep, ATL FO Rep) creates an impression that there is a hidden agenda behind all the selling.

Pensionable PS and DPSP Cash are some of the biggest strengths of the Delta PWA. The fact we were able to negotiate DPSP Cash is huge. But in the R&I Committee's Presentation they clearly stated "DPSP Cash is bad, it's a problem, here's why you shouldn't want it" followed by lots of flawed slides about "tax savings". It reminded me of a Multi Level Marketing pitch. If that's not selling I don't know what is.

notEnuf

I haven't spoken with either of those reps but I do know there is a focus to recover value for retirees and have a tax advantaged plan for future contractual retirement gains. With all the retirements upcoming, I think some improvements are desired and warranted. The problem is without a traditional pension, how do you achieve a comparable benefit? The money required to get there is all taxable above what we have with our current DC. That's a lot of value going to uncle Sam instead of the individual.

mispoken

It sounds like the tail is wagging the dog. This is very much present day tax solution driven. If that is the issue at hand, offer the NQDCP. Those soon to retire can defer a portion of their income to retirement saving on taxes now. A 5% (or whatever they choose) ROR on DPSP cash for near retirees does not do much for them anyhow. I get they are our highest earners and taxes are a real problem for them which is why I think the NQDCP is a good option. AND, it's OPTIONAL!