crewdawg

If you're not going to do anything with that money, then I would agree with you. Otherwise, that's a pretty foolish statement. Looking at the local dealers, a new F-150 is running around 45-50k. You could do lots of damage with that much capital and still have the original 45-50k when all said and done.

Afks05

Gunfighter, I think it's great that you ran the numbers, especially considering taxes. However I think you could have looked at the cumulative effect of each year getting (in your example 4K) more put into your notional MBCBP.

In your example the original 10K is only worth 24k after 25 years (very true). But if you were still employed you would have received and earned interest on 24 additional contributions of 10K (likewise the IRA would have received 24 additional contributions of 6K).

I looked at this effect using your same assumptions and this is what I found:
5year: 55K vs 36K
10years: 126K vs 91K
15years: 216K vs 176K
20years: 330K vs 307K
25years: 477K vs 508K
29years: 623K vs 744K

After taxes (25% vs 15%) the value of each after the 29th year of employment is

467K vs 633K. A net of 165K towards the IRA. But...

The break even point (in the end) between the two is at 7% ROR for the IRA. For myself, I don't think I'll be invested aggressively enough in my last few years of work to generate a 9% ROR and perhaps an 7% or 8% overall ROR is realistic when we think about being less aggressive close to retirement. (except for Trip7, man tell me your secrets to a 14% ROR).

My point here, is that while the forum is prone to hyperbole, the results discussed here are pretty narrow based on the information at a hand. Moreover those results could be swung by either high administrative costs or a willingness by DAL to pay more into the MBCBP because it allows them to avoid payroll tax.

I share other peoples concerns about loosing control over the money. So for myself I would need the MBCBP to be a significantly better deal than what I could achieve with DPSP cash. But I think with the right incentives I could support the MBCBP as part of my mix of retirement moneys.

I appreciate Denny starting the thread and Gunfighter's analysis. Put me squarely in the maybe category.

JamesBond

I'd never pay that for a vehicle. But... I guess of you could get a 2% loan or something like that then maybe I would agree with you. But $50 large that is worth $30 when you drive it off the lot? No thanks. It's just a truck. Somebody else can pay for the depreciation. By and large, the automakers are killing people with these high prices and long term loans.

It really comes down to maximizing disposable income, and not wasting that capital which is 'working'. But interest in any form is a rip off.

Tummy

I have a strong desire to leave a bequest to my future children. As I understand it, the overwhelming majority of pensions stop paying when the beneficiary (and their spouse) dies. For this reason, I would prefer to build as large a nest egg as possible so that I can leave it to my heirs when my time on this planet is over.

I would have no investment control in a DB pension. This is unacceptable to me. I have a different asset allocation than many of you, and that is by design. I do not want an asset allocation forced upon me.

Currently, I am 100% invested in equities. Since I plan on leaving much of my wealth to my children, I think of my investment timeline in terms of their lifetime. If I impress upon them the importance of saving and passing our wealth on to future generations, then hopefully they will also view their investment horizon in terms of their children's lifetimes.

If I accumulate enough wealth early enough, or if I simply don't want to work anymore, I may choose to access my retirement funds early. This is much more difficult to do with a DB pension. I like the idea of reaching Financial Independence as soon as possible and enjoying a prolonged full or semi-retirement.

Targeting a 5% investment return is utterly unacceptable to me.

The expenses associated with running the plan are utterly unacceptable to me.

Many of my coworkers would consider my asset allocation utterly unacceptable to them. I will not force my preferred asset allocation on to them.

Finally, let's speak directly about the elephant in the room. Many are openly advocating for an increased benefit for "dead zoners." Many of these same people cannot even adequately define "dead zoner." I did not steal anyone's pension. I am not responsible for restoring anyone's pension.

1. Hold the line on scope.
2. Increase the DC % to 20%.
3. Industry leading pay rates.
4. Improve trip rig.
5. Improve duty rig.

Trip7

*Standing Ovation*

*Claps Furiously*

*Wipes tears after such a moving speech*

Couldn't agree more

msprj2

I think if you pay your kids college, leave them your $750k house and a car or two that should suffice.

TED74

Not bad at all. Personally, I like:

1. Hold the line on scope.
1B. Improve JV language in some ways that are above my head.
2. Increase the DC % to 20%.
3. Improve duty rig.
4. Improve trip rig.
5. Add the lost week of vacation back in.
6. Industry leading pay rates.
7. UAL's DH language.

notEnuf

I applaud all of the above...

Now everybody sing the chorus!!!

What are willing to give up for that?
What are willing to give up for that.
What are willing to give up for that!

guitar solo---

tunes

Buddy passes

FL370esq

You can even keep that "lost" week for C2020 if you pay me 5+15 for each and every day of my current 5 weeks.

See....that's reasonable. Merely asking for a 140% increase for the first 2 weeks and 150% for the remaining 3 weeks. 🤔