Dalpa R&I Roadshow
09-16-2018, 06:30 AM
#151
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Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,535
Nothing but a pay raise is palatable to all pilots. Even Scope improvements can be portrayed as Scope gives. Retirement medical? All the guys with Tricare don't like that along with filling up an HSA they can't have. Get used to that idea. Otherwise you will vote no to any Tentative Agreement that is negotiated.
Denny
Denny
09-16-2018, 08:08 AM
#152
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,598
At $1000/yr you're not really using the tax advantage. $300-400ish in tax savings and all the extra expense of the program isn't worth it. We are adding complexity for to small a return. Adding more than $1000 puts that money out of reach and is not part of your estate. If you pass before collecting, then you have gifted the plan whatever amount you were forced to contribute. VEBA=NO. For me any loss of control of my compensation is a NO.
United has VEBA. Hawaiian has it. jetBlue just got it in their new contract. It's an incredible retirement vehicle that is truly tax free. I would be in favor of a company funded VEBA funded similar to $1 per credit hour. Medical expenses will be one the biggest expenses in retirement and the VEBA provides significant savings benefits. IMO, the triple tax advantage is worth the risk of losing any remaining balance upon death. Even in that case the remaining money goes back in the pool of funds that helps other Delta pilots. A worthwhile sacrifice and ultimate display of Union Unity.
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09-16-2018, 08:12 AM
#153
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Looking at the videos and the slideshows, I’m a little surprised that the Retirement & “Insurance” Working Group isn’t making any mention of retiree medical options as a way to improve retired pilot’s QOL and make the money you already have go further. I am going to try to get to a roadshow so I can learn as much as possible, but thus far I feel like it’s all very leading. Whether they intend it to be that way or not, that’s the impression it gives me.
Also, does anyone know which member of the working group that’s putting this out has the background and expertise with retirement vehicles? I know it’s certainly not the negotiators or the reps that are on the working group.
Also, does anyone know which member of the working group that’s putting this out has the background and expertise with retirement vehicles? I know it’s certainly not the negotiators or the reps that are on the working group.
I’m hoping that some type of retirement medical insurance will be discussed. This is certainly my direction to my Reps. This is a much better idea than a VEBA.
Denny
09-16-2018, 08:18 AM
#154
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
VEBA truly saves taxes. It has a triple tax advantage. Goes in tax free, grows tax free, and distributed tax free. It's great supplement to the HSA. The big downside is it does not stay with your estate upon death. For that reason I wouldn't want significant capital directed there. Something small like $1000 per year is reasonable.
The MBCBP will have an extremely difficult time beating a tax free vehicle like VEBA. You will pay taxes on distribution of a MBCBP.
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The MBCBP will have an extremely difficult time beating a tax free vehicle like VEBA. You will pay taxes on distribution of a MBCBP.
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Denny
09-16-2018, 08:32 AM
#155
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,598
This is simple risk management.
Medical expenses in retirement will be one of your highest expenses if not your highest expense in retirement. The odds of you exhausting your VEBA account prior to death are high. The risk reward matrix tilts highly in favor of VEBA.
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Medical expenses in retirement will be one of your highest expenses if not your highest expense in retirement. The odds of you exhausting your VEBA account prior to death are high. The risk reward matrix tilts highly in favor of VEBA.
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09-16-2018, 08:53 AM
#156
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
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This is simple risk management.
Medical expenses in retirement will be one of your highest expenses if not your highest expense in retirement. The odds of you exhausting your VEBA account prior to death are high. The risk reward matrix tilts highly in favor of VEBA.
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Medical expenses in retirement will be one of your highest expenses if not your highest expense in retirement. The odds of you exhausting your VEBA account prior to death are high. The risk reward matrix tilts highly in favor of VEBA.
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What do you think an HSA is for? Uhhhhhhh.......medical expenses in retirement comes to mind. It’s a much better way to save for healthcare expenses than a VEBA. Now, if VEBA was voluntary......
, but we all know it isn’t. Denny
09-16-2018, 08:59 AM
#157
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Trip7,
It sounds like your major objection to the MBCBP is that it is taxed when you take a withdrawal. Secondarily is the targeted return. You may not be taxed on a VEBA but your return could very well be similar to a VEBA. I personally think the idea of the MBCBP going into your estate and more than likely being in a lower tax bracket during retirement offset tax benefits of the VEBA.
Denny
It sounds like your major objection to the MBCBP is that it is taxed when you take a withdrawal. Secondarily is the targeted return. You may not be taxed on a VEBA but your return could very well be similar to a VEBA. I personally think the idea of the MBCBP going into your estate and more than likely being in a lower tax bracket during retirement offset tax benefits of the VEBA.
Denny
09-16-2018, 09:15 AM
#158
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,598
Trip7,
It sounds like your major objection to the MBCBP is that it is taxed when you take a withdrawal. Secondarily is the targeted return. You may not be taxed on a VEBA but your return could very well be similar to a VEBA. I personally think the idea of the MBCBP going into your estate and more than likely being in a lower tax bracket during retirement offset tax benefits of the VEBA.
Denny
It sounds like your major objection to the MBCBP is that it is taxed when you take a withdrawal. Secondarily is the targeted return. You may not be taxed on a VEBA but your return could very well be similar to a VEBA. I personally think the idea of the MBCBP going into your estate and more than likely being in a lower tax bracket during retirement offset tax benefits of the VEBA.
Denny
VEBA has significantly higher ROI. And it's not even close
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09-16-2018, 09:44 AM
#159
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,235
You sure about this? I don’t have the literature but thought the excess went to the plan administrator/ALPA. Not the remaining plan participants.
09-16-2018, 09:56 AM
#160
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: A330 First Officer
Posts: 1,465
You do realize $300-$400 in tax savings on $1000 is an immediate 30-40% return? Even Warren Buffet couldn't beat that.
United has VEBA. Hawaiian has it. jetBlue just got it in their new contract. It's an incredible retirement vehicle that is truly tax free. I would be in favor of a company funded VEBA funded similar to $1 per credit hour. Medical expenses will be one the biggest expenses in retirement and the VEBA provides significant savings benefits. IMO, the triple tax advantage is worth the risk of losing any remaining balance upon death. Even in that case the remaining money goes back in the pool of funds that helps other Delta pilots. A worthwhile sacrifice and ultimate display of Union Unity.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
United has VEBA. Hawaiian has it. jetBlue just got it in their new contract. It's an incredible retirement vehicle that is truly tax free. I would be in favor of a company funded VEBA funded similar to $1 per credit hour. Medical expenses will be one the biggest expenses in retirement and the VEBA provides significant savings benefits. IMO, the triple tax advantage is worth the risk of losing any remaining balance upon death. Even in that case the remaining money goes back in the pool of funds that helps other Delta pilots. A worthwhile sacrifice and ultimate display of Union Unity.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
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