GogglesPisano

The average age of a newhire since 2007 has been late 30’s. Most Delta pilots hired since then are looking at a 25-year career.

Denny Crane

That was only one of the possible iterations. Another one was to take all the DPSP CSH and put it in. I believe that is what United/Continental does. The whole thing with the VEBA was it was not researched very well before it was proposed as part of our contract. Maybe i did exaggerate a bit but a young pilot could end up with a few hundred thousand dollars. That is not unreasonable. It could only be used for medical expenses for qualified persons. At retirement that will probably be you and your spouse. The two of you get in an auto accident and pass away, POOF!, there goes that money. A MBCBP is a way better use of that money. It goes into your estate for one.

The other thing is a VEBA won’t necessarily earn more than a MBCBP plus it’s not self directable either. Trip7 knows all this. He’s just arguing to argue. Kinda like my kids used to do....

Denny

Denny Crane

Huh? We don’t get DC above 16%.

Denny

sailingfun

Our 16% is worth more than United’s and Americans 16%.

Denny Crane

I disagree. 16% is 16% no matter what it is applied too. We negotiated for it to apply to PS. It’s still 16%. Maybe they should negotiate for it too.

Denny

Hillbilly

Then United and American’s “effective” DC is less than 16%. I could follow that train of thought. Ours is not “effectively” more than 16% though.

CX500T

My thoughts as a new hire who is looking at a 20-26 year tenure at Delta. (turned 39 in indoc, was on the old end of the new hire class with a couple late 40s guys)

Even as one of the older people in indoc, anything that is not optional, nor in my name, 100%, it's mine and I can pass it on to heirs is a non starter.

I've lost a non airline pension already (General Motors). I also lost a ton in stocks because our "in your name plan" that we got post bankruptcy was in GM stock which was then left worthless.

I just barely missed the window where my reserve retirement would have changed, and I still have 20 years before I can collect that where the rules could change again after the game started. A couple words different in the NDAA and I would have had a 20% cut in that pension.

Anything not in my name, or anything that is held by the company in terms of "must be invested in company stock" (Haven't seen that yet, but if it comes out later) is a no vote for me.

Trip7

VEBA truly saves taxes. It has a triple tax advantage. Goes in tax free, grows tax free, and distributed tax free. It's great supplement to the HSA. The big downside is it does not stay with your estate upon death. For that reason I wouldn't want significant capital directed there. Something small like $1000 per year is reasonable.

The MBCBP will have an extremely difficult time beating a tax free vehicle like VEBA. You will pay taxes on distribution of a MBCBP.

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Hillbilly

Looking at the videos and the slideshows, I’m a little surprised that the Retirement & “Insurance” Working Group isn’t making any mention of retiree medical options as a way to improve retired pilot’s QOL and make the money you already have go further. I am going to try to get to a roadshow so I can learn as much as possible, but thus far I feel like it’s all very leading. Whether they intend it to be that way or not, that’s the impression it gives me.

Also, does anyone know which member of the working group that’s putting this out has the background and expertise with retirement vehicles? I know it’s certainly not the negotiators or the reps that are on the working group.

notEnuf

At $1000/yr you're not really using the tax advantage. $300-400ish in tax savings and all the extra expense of the program isn't worth it. We are adding complexity for to small a return. Adding more than $1000 puts that money out of reach and is not part of your estate. If you pass before collecting, then you have gifted the plan whatever amount you were forced to contribute. VEBA=NO. For me any loss of control of my compensation is a NO.