Originally Posted by notEnuf

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2673739-post104.html

Dalpa R&I Roadshow

So in other words...

You would like to have control of your money. Yes, I think most of us prefer to control our money rather than having someone else make the investment decisions without our input.

Just to clarify. A return is always lessened when additional intermediaries are also fiduciaries of the investment. Whether it’s real estate managers, passive investing via a REIT, or calling a plumber adding distance between you and the investment always means complexity and additional cost or lower returns. Generally that is the case. Being a direct investor lessens the dilution from intermediaries. Real Estate, Antiques, Collectibles, Precious Metals, etc are good examples of this.

This is especially true for investing for a guaranteed level of return no matter the vehicle. Guaranteed return is a fools game. The only guarantee is that the entity providing the guarantee is being paid a significant amount above the level of risk they are assuming for providing the guarantee.

I happen to think rare antique collectable motorcycles are the best return for my money. That may be a great choice for you. I have a neighbor who has built a sizable supplement to his retirement with a guitar collection. His collection is worth more than the house he lives in. Others have done so with firearms and antique cars. The gains will be subject to ordinary income vs long term capital gains and there is little tax advantage or leverage available.

Should others be forced to share in this investment? Nope, they should be free to chose their own investment

If not, what level of insurance, insulation, cash reserves should we require to have an acceptable universal plan. Probably enough to make the returns minimal for the effort and complexity. A universal plan may not be the right solution. This isn't socialism, its OK if you retire with more or less than me. We are a diverse group with different financial needs.We don't have to have equal amounts. If we negotiate a one size fits all Modern DB plan, I hope it is done with company funds, not diverted DC funds. It should be done after securing 20% DC and increased HSA contributions.

Originally Posted by notEnuf

I agree, the vehicles already exist and the company needs to fully fund them. 401k with catch up contributions, HSA, and health care premiums to include Medicare shortfall are all good places for the COMPANY to fund retirement.

I’m pointing out that we all have our “if/then” requirements and from what I have read so far these new vehicles don’t allow for the “ifs” that will bind us all as a group to allow the “thens.”

Originally Posted by snowdawg

Ditto. Why am I funding my own retirement in place of my lost pension of $180,000 per year or whatever the number would have been. Now I get $1600 for every $10,000 and have to turn that many times to equal my pension.

Originally Posted by Trip7

So far from all the Roadshow reports I've read the only plan briefed has been a DB using DPSP Cash that is not optional.

I don't want to be harsh because I'm sure the R&I Committee put alot of work into this but is this really the best they can come up with? This plan as is an absolute no. Hopefully they can either change it to company funded or make it optional.

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Originally Posted by sailingfun

A 16% DC pension over a 32 year career is generally thought to be equal to a 60% FAE DB plan. Guys hired since 2007 should be in great shape at the end of their career. Our effective DC rate is closer to 18%.
It’s the guys hired prior who don’t have thirty years to rebuild who get hurt.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

A 16% DC pension over a 32 year career is generally thought to be equal to a 60% FAE DB plan. Guys hired since 2007 should be in great shape at the end of their career. Our effective DC rate is closer to 18%.
It’s the guys hired prior who don’t have thirty years to rebuild who get hurt.

Originally Posted by lake

Think outside the box. What if this was in addition to anything else you had for retirement. It's very simple math. If you were employed for 30 years you would get an ADDITIONAL $3000.00/ month. No one's taking anything from you...