What does MSP look like in a year?
05-02-2018, 09:32 PM
#1
Summer Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: 73N FO
Posts: 82
What does MSP look like in a year?
Lots of movement in MSP about to happen. Whats everyone's best guess at how it shakes out.. The 320 Mafia stays the same or do folks bid to the dreaded boeing product.. only time will tell.
05-04-2018, 11:49 AM
#2
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
One thing you’ll learn quickly, you’ll never figure out how 14,668 people are going to bid.
05-07-2018, 11:06 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,233
From MSP CPO update:
Considering the above perspectives the following specific areas were addressed:
MD-88/MD-90 Drawdown:
• Entrenchment of the MD-88 aircraft to ATL has already begun. Therefore, by this
fall we can expect the initial drawdown of the MD88/90 category in MSP.
• The entire MD-88 fleet will be parked by the end of 2020. The MD90 fleet will likely
no longer fly to/from MSP by the end of summer of 2019 and will likely leave Delta
by 2023 (note: dates are flexible depending upon pax demand and other A/C
availability).
• As the MD88/MD90 fleets are moved out of MSP, and the category closes, the plan
is for a 1:1 increase in new B737 and A320 positions in a fairly balanced split
between the two aircraft.
• Depending upon actual pilot bids from across the system, although there will be a
1:1 increase in A320/B737 MSP positions, some of the new positions could be taken
by other based pilots wanting to bid into MSP. Actual assignments will depend upon
how AE/VD/MD preferences actually stack up from all pilots.
• Variations from the above bullet are too complicated to detail here; but all pilots
(especially all MD-88/90 pilots) should have Mandatory Displacement preferences
submitted.
What about a MSP 717 Base:
• Although there are currently a significant amount of 717 flights that could justify
opening a MSP 717 base, that decision has not been made, and does not appear
likely in the longer term.
• Expect to see increases in B737/A320 flying and an ultimate reduction in 717 flying
out of MSP in the longer term. (See Network’s upgrading strategy above.)
• Crew Resources thought strongly about opening a 717 base in MSP last year, but did
not have the training resources (simulator capacity) or Network assurance of long
term deployment available to make that happen. (As it was, recall the significant
amount of GS flying on the 717 last summer, particularly in NYC.)
• Now given Network’s projection of less 717 flying out of MSP in the future it makes
more sense to place the MD-88/90 flying on A320/B737.
• Because MSP is a highly desirable base, creating even a single 717 FO position here
will likely cause multiple training evolutions for the single position. Much like the
“waterfall effect” of a single wide-body CA retirement, as a Non-New Hire pilot
moves into MSP, that previously occupied position has to be filled; which will cause a
ripple effect as those subsequent positions are filled. (If the new MSP pilot will
comes from a position that can be filled by a new hire, then there are a minimum of
two training events. If the new MSP pilot’s replacement is not a new hire, then there
are likely more.)
• A single 717 FO position in NYC, ATL, or DTW doesn’t have the same effect and can
usually be filled by a New Hire – a single training event.
• Some pilots cite the potential shorter training footprint to move MD-88/90 pilots to
the 717, or the cost of hotels for 717 (and A330) pilots as considerations.
o Those costs are considered; but aren’t high enough to be a driver either way.
A-330 Base:
• As stated in the last AE notes, expect to see an A-330 based opened in MSP on a 365
day bid in June or July.
• The target base size will be approximately 50 CA’s and 60-70 FO’s.
• Just as a data point, approximately 30 CA’s and 40 FO’s based elsewhere are current
and qualified on the A-330 and live within 200 miles of KMSP. This is not to say they
will all bid back to MSP; but some will.
7ER Base:
• As has been communicated elsewhere, the ultimate picture of the 7ER fleet will be to
gradually retreat to the 4 corners of the country (NYC/ATL/LAX/SEA) before
eventually being replaced mid/late next decade (possibly Boeing’s NMA –Next
Midsized Aircraft?).
• Currently Crew Resources is satisfied with the size and structure of MSP 7ER staffing
so there are no plans for displacements or closing the category (see Crew Resources
perspectives above).
• If crews do bid off the 7ER they may or may not be backfilled depending upon
Network’s plan, utilization, and crew balance.
• Realize that occasionally backfills do occur in order to balance CA/FO positions
regardless if the fleet size is being flexed up or down.
• Know that no current manufactured A/C fills the niche of the 757; therefore Delta is
interested in being very involved in the development of the Boeing NMA.
C –Series
• Initial deliveries of CS-100 will be in OCT, with customer flights commencing in
January. We anticipate the CS100 bid coming as part of the larger bid in June or
July.
• Initial basing will be in NYC, with West Coast basing to follow (LAX has been
published elsewhere, but as with all things to do with basing, that may change).
• As of now there does not appear to be much (if any) flying of the A/C out of MSP;
therefore a C Series base in MSP anytime soon doesn’t appear likely.
• As the C Series starts replacing current West Coast 717 flying the initial thought was
to push the 717 to MSP; however that appears unlikely (see above).
• The C Series platform will likely ultimately replace the 717; but that is a long way off
(8-10 years perhaps).
Considering the above perspectives the following specific areas were addressed:
MD-88/MD-90 Drawdown:
• Entrenchment of the MD-88 aircraft to ATL has already begun. Therefore, by this
fall we can expect the initial drawdown of the MD88/90 category in MSP.
• The entire MD-88 fleet will be parked by the end of 2020. The MD90 fleet will likely
no longer fly to/from MSP by the end of summer of 2019 and will likely leave Delta
by 2023 (note: dates are flexible depending upon pax demand and other A/C
availability).
• As the MD88/MD90 fleets are moved out of MSP, and the category closes, the plan
is for a 1:1 increase in new B737 and A320 positions in a fairly balanced split
between the two aircraft.
• Depending upon actual pilot bids from across the system, although there will be a
1:1 increase in A320/B737 MSP positions, some of the new positions could be taken
by other based pilots wanting to bid into MSP. Actual assignments will depend upon
how AE/VD/MD preferences actually stack up from all pilots.
• Variations from the above bullet are too complicated to detail here; but all pilots
(especially all MD-88/90 pilots) should have Mandatory Displacement preferences
submitted.
What about a MSP 717 Base:
• Although there are currently a significant amount of 717 flights that could justify
opening a MSP 717 base, that decision has not been made, and does not appear
likely in the longer term.
• Expect to see increases in B737/A320 flying and an ultimate reduction in 717 flying
out of MSP in the longer term. (See Network’s upgrading strategy above.)
• Crew Resources thought strongly about opening a 717 base in MSP last year, but did
not have the training resources (simulator capacity) or Network assurance of long
term deployment available to make that happen. (As it was, recall the significant
amount of GS flying on the 717 last summer, particularly in NYC.)
• Now given Network’s projection of less 717 flying out of MSP in the future it makes
more sense to place the MD-88/90 flying on A320/B737.
• Because MSP is a highly desirable base, creating even a single 717 FO position here
will likely cause multiple training evolutions for the single position. Much like the
“waterfall effect” of a single wide-body CA retirement, as a Non-New Hire pilot
moves into MSP, that previously occupied position has to be filled; which will cause a
ripple effect as those subsequent positions are filled. (If the new MSP pilot will
comes from a position that can be filled by a new hire, then there are a minimum of
two training events. If the new MSP pilot’s replacement is not a new hire, then there
are likely more.)
• A single 717 FO position in NYC, ATL, or DTW doesn’t have the same effect and can
usually be filled by a New Hire – a single training event.
• Some pilots cite the potential shorter training footprint to move MD-88/90 pilots to
the 717, or the cost of hotels for 717 (and A330) pilots as considerations.
o Those costs are considered; but aren’t high enough to be a driver either way.
A-330 Base:
• As stated in the last AE notes, expect to see an A-330 based opened in MSP on a 365
day bid in June or July.
• The target base size will be approximately 50 CA’s and 60-70 FO’s.
• Just as a data point, approximately 30 CA’s and 40 FO’s based elsewhere are current
and qualified on the A-330 and live within 200 miles of KMSP. This is not to say they
will all bid back to MSP; but some will.
7ER Base:
• As has been communicated elsewhere, the ultimate picture of the 7ER fleet will be to
gradually retreat to the 4 corners of the country (NYC/ATL/LAX/SEA) before
eventually being replaced mid/late next decade (possibly Boeing’s NMA –Next
Midsized Aircraft?).
• Currently Crew Resources is satisfied with the size and structure of MSP 7ER staffing
so there are no plans for displacements or closing the category (see Crew Resources
perspectives above).
• If crews do bid off the 7ER they may or may not be backfilled depending upon
Network’s plan, utilization, and crew balance.
• Realize that occasionally backfills do occur in order to balance CA/FO positions
regardless if the fleet size is being flexed up or down.
• Know that no current manufactured A/C fills the niche of the 757; therefore Delta is
interested in being very involved in the development of the Boeing NMA.
C –Series
• Initial deliveries of CS-100 will be in OCT, with customer flights commencing in
January. We anticipate the CS100 bid coming as part of the larger bid in June or
July.
• Initial basing will be in NYC, with West Coast basing to follow (LAX has been
published elsewhere, but as with all things to do with basing, that may change).
• As of now there does not appear to be much (if any) flying of the A/C out of MSP;
therefore a C Series base in MSP anytime soon doesn’t appear likely.
• As the C Series starts replacing current West Coast 717 flying the initial thought was
to push the 717 to MSP; however that appears unlikely (see above).
• The C Series platform will likely ultimately replace the 717; but that is a long way off
(8-10 years perhaps).
07-04-2018, 09:43 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 258
When we look up "count of pilots senior to you" bidding for a position, will this number include pilots who only have a MD in for that position? In other words, if I check in icrew for senior bidders, will it include all the m88 guys if they only have MD bid?
07-04-2018, 11:09 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,250
I think that it only includes pilots who have an AE for that position not a displacement for it. So, if they only have a MD it will not reflect in the number
07-04-2018, 12:55 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,537
correct, only includes AE bids...also doesnt include any qualifiers or people ineligible to bid (that one doesnt apply to new category)
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