C Series Info
10-04-2017, 09:07 AM
#911
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,816
I think it's premature to speculate one way or the other. The decision was likely expected - so, Ed likely is considering some contingency plans. From what I can tell, Delta wants the CS100. Again, it's not just price, we are talking about capabilities and ergonomics. Why would Ed say that the CS100 could be Delta's best domestic aircraft? He wouldn't say that just because of the price per unit...
Sure, Delta could order some Airbus NEOs, but it would have to wait in a long line or secure them through some aircraft lessors. However, the NEOs wouldn't address the need for capable aircraft in the 100-120 seat range. Meanwhile, the MD88s continue to slug onwards with maintenance and reliability issues. The CSeries would be a welcome addition to the fleet.
From a holistic sense, Delta needs to stand-up to Boeing. You can't allow your suppliers to bully you and impact your operations with ridiculous and hypocritical trading disputes. This entire situation points to the critical need for MORE suppliers - NOT FEWER suppliers. More suppliers = more choice = more negotiating leverage in the future. Just bending over and accepting Boeing's hypocritical and self-serving tactics would send a terrible message to all suppliers - the biggest suppliers can squash innovative suppliers.
It's too early to determine what will happen - I'd like to hear more from Ed on his thoughts. I am hopeful the CS100 order comes to fruition and it is delivered because it is the best airplane in that 100-120 seat category and passengers, bean counters and pilots will love it.
Sure, Delta could order some Airbus NEOs, but it would have to wait in a long line or secure them through some aircraft lessors. However, the NEOs wouldn't address the need for capable aircraft in the 100-120 seat range. Meanwhile, the MD88s continue to slug onwards with maintenance and reliability issues. The CSeries would be a welcome addition to the fleet.
From a holistic sense, Delta needs to stand-up to Boeing. You can't allow your suppliers to bully you and impact your operations with ridiculous and hypocritical trading disputes. This entire situation points to the critical need for MORE suppliers - NOT FEWER suppliers. More suppliers = more choice = more negotiating leverage in the future. Just bending over and accepting Boeing's hypocritical and self-serving tactics would send a terrible message to all suppliers - the biggest suppliers can squash innovative suppliers.
It's too early to determine what will happen - I'd like to hear more from Ed on his thoughts. I am hopeful the CS100 order comes to fruition and it is delivered because it is the best airplane in that 100-120 seat category and passengers, bean counters and pilots will love it.
10-04-2017, 09:45 AM
#913
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,254
I like bombardier product. I've flown E-145 and CRJ-700, Bombardier is a superior quality product.
Having said that, if DAL decides to cancel the CSeries for whatever reason, I hope they get the E-195 E2 and A320 NEOs brand new from the factory. Boeing can keep their used 190s and 737s. They need to come with something new, not just modifications to their current models.
Having said that, if DAL decides to cancel the CSeries for whatever reason, I hope they get the E-195 E2 and A320 NEOs brand new from the factory. Boeing can keep their used 190s and 737s. They need to come with something new, not just modifications to their current models.
10-04-2017, 10:19 AM
#914
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,943
I like bombardier product. I've flown E-145 and CRJ-700, Bombardier is a superior quality product.
Having said that, if DAL decides to cancel the CSeries for whatever reason, I hope they get the E-195 E2 and A320 NEOs brand new from the factory. Boeing can keep their used 190s and 737s. They need to come with something new, not just modifications to their current models.
Having said that, if DAL decides to cancel the CSeries for whatever reason, I hope they get the E-195 E2 and A320 NEOs brand new from the factory. Boeing can keep their used 190s and 737s. They need to come with something new, not just modifications to their current models.
10-04-2017, 11:30 AM
#915
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,816
I like bombardier product. I've flown E-145 and CRJ-700, Bombardier is a superior quality product.
Having said that, if DAL decides to cancel the CSeries for whatever reason, I hope they get the E-195 E2 and A320 NEOs brand new from the factory. Boeing can keep their used 190s and 737s. They need to come with something new, not just modifications to their current models.
Having said that, if DAL decides to cancel the CSeries for whatever reason, I hope they get the E-195 E2 and A320 NEOs brand new from the factory. Boeing can keep their used 190s and 737s. They need to come with something new, not just modifications to their current models.
Unlike the CS100, the E2 has very few interior enhancements or ergonomic innovations from the current E190/5. The E2 is basically the E195 with geared turbofan engines, a new cockpit set-up (but same ram horns!) and a new wing. Not many changes that actually enhance the passenger experience in a competitive market.
You may not care, but there is a difference between the interiors of the 737-700 and the CS100. Here's a pretty good video that shows how one business traveler viewed the difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sthoNr81QlI
His reaction at the end says it all. Boeing is concerned about Bombardier's innovations and they want to stifle the program to protect their 737 franchise.......
10-04-2017, 11:46 AM
#916
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,254
The E2 is actually selling worse than the CSeries. Just a few token orders from Azul in Brazil and Wideroe in Norway I believe. Jet Blue doesn't seem warmed to it either after its rocky experience with the E190. Although still operating them for now, Air Canada was happy to dump ownership of the E190s on Boeing and looks forward to their CS300 deliveries starting in 2019.
Unlike the CS100, the E2 has very few interior enhancements or ergonomic innovations from the current E190/5. The E2 is basically the E195 with geared turbofan engines, a new cockpit set-up (but same ram horns!) and a new wing. Not many changes that actually enhance the passenger experience in a competitive market.
You may not care, but there is a difference between the interiors of the 737-700 and the CS100. Here's a pretty good video that shows how one business traveler viewed the difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sthoNr81QlI
His reaction at the end says it all. Boeing is concerned about Bombardier's innovations and they want to stifle the program to protect their 737 franchise.......
Unlike the CS100, the E2 has very few interior enhancements or ergonomic innovations from the current E190/5. The E2 is basically the E195 with geared turbofan engines, a new cockpit set-up (but same ram horns!) and a new wing. Not many changes that actually enhance the passenger experience in a competitive market.
You may not care, but there is a difference between the interiors of the 737-700 and the CS100. Here's a pretty good video that shows how one business traveler viewed the difference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sthoNr81QlI
His reaction at the end says it all. Boeing is concerned about Bombardier's innovations and they want to stifle the program to protect their 737 franchise.......
My point is that I want the CSeries to be delivered at DAL. But if they have to cancel the order because Boeing BS, I really hope they don't buy a Boeing product for long time.
10-04-2017, 11:56 AM
#917
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: B767 FO
Posts: 423
You all do realize that the WTO is looking into this claim as well based upon complaints by Brazil/Embraer. You really think that Airbus/Embaer aren't secretly cheering on Boeing?
My personal opinion, nobody is innocent here. The airlines manipulate the manufacturers and the manufacturers manipulate the airlines. Been going on a long, long time, and will go on after this.
I hope y'all get the Airplane in the end, but Bombardier dug their own hole with the loans, Boeing is just throwing the dirt back in the hole while they are in there. I'll bet money if you were in Management at Boeing, you would do the same thing.
***I'll admit I like Boeings, but I like the Douglas Airplanes I've flown as well, and I'm sure I'd like an Airbus. Heck, if I got hired at DAL today, I'd probably bid the MD-88. I like old airplanes.
***
My personal opinion, nobody is innocent here. The airlines manipulate the manufacturers and the manufacturers manipulate the airlines. Been going on a long, long time, and will go on after this.
I hope y'all get the Airplane in the end, but Bombardier dug their own hole with the loans, Boeing is just throwing the dirt back in the hole while they are in there. I'll bet money if you were in Management at Boeing, you would do the same thing.
***I'll admit I like Boeings, but I like the Douglas Airplanes I've flown as well, and I'm sure I'd like an Airbus. Heck, if I got hired at DAL today, I'd probably bid the MD-88. I like old airplanes.
***
10-04-2017, 01:52 PM
#919
Doing Nothing
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,316
10-04-2017, 02:58 PM
#920
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,816
You all do realize that the WTO is looking into this claim as well based upon complaints by Brazil/Embraer. You really think that Airbus/Embaer aren't secretly cheering on Boeing?
My personal opinion, nobody is innocent here. The airlines manipulate the manufacturers and the manufacturers manipulate the airlines. Been going on a long, long time, and will go on after this.
I hope y'all get the Airplane in the end, but Bombardier dug their own hole with the loans, Boeing is just throwing the dirt back in the hole while they are in there. I'll bet money if you were in Management at Boeing, you would do the same thing.
***I'll admit I like Boeings, but I like the Douglas Airplanes I've flown as well, and I'm sure I'd like an Airbus. Heck, if I got hired at DAL today, I'd probably bid the MD-88. I like old airplanes.***
My personal opinion, nobody is innocent here. The airlines manipulate the manufacturers and the manufacturers manipulate the airlines. Been going on a long, long time, and will go on after this.
I hope y'all get the Airplane in the end, but Bombardier dug their own hole with the loans, Boeing is just throwing the dirt back in the hole while they are in there. I'll bet money if you were in Management at Boeing, you would do the same thing.
***I'll admit I like Boeings, but I like the Douglas Airplanes I've flown as well, and I'm sure I'd like an Airbus. Heck, if I got hired at DAL today, I'd probably bid the MD-88. I like old airplanes.
***Bombardier CS300 - Large Preview - AirTeamImages.com
It would be difficult to find a more advanced (would be nice if the HUDs were included) and ergonomic cockpit...
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