forgot to bid

It evidently doesn't matter. This finding is for 100-150 seat aircraft but the number of seats can be below or above 150. So its about dumping.

And fwiw the actual tariff doesn't take into account Boeing's complaint yet. So it could be higher.

The problem is there are no buyers and Bombardier couldn't get a commercial loan to stay afloat. So they were rescued by Quebec and turned around and sold the airplane at a good price to Delta. They could have done it had they had commercial loans, well maybe, but they couldn't get any. So the C Series was deemed uncreditworhty and unequityworthy at time of government backing.

Bombardier made a mistake a long time ago in pricing, I remember reading an article where they decided not to discount it because it was such a great product it didnt need the traditional boeing/airbus deep discounts. It might have bitten them as the market decided being the better airplane isn't enough and nobody of value ordered it.

Imho delta is buying the c series not because it's better, and it is, but because they got themselves in a bind and the 88s are having to exit earlier than planned and the backlog of other aircraft is too high and now too expensive for their taste. And it seems as if they know the price will be high if their only option is Airbus because rhey cant stand Boeing or its 737 right now.

But maybe I'm wrong.

Mesabah

If the Republicans get their tax plan, an Airbus order can be written off on Delta's taxes, a Cseries tariff can not. That right there automatically makes the Airbus order cheaper, or at least less risky.

GogglesPisano

Probably cheaper in retrofit the 88's with GPS or whatever acronym it takes to get another 5 years out of them while placing a massive 320neo order.

Question is -- with the last MOAB/displacement bid -- who will wind up flying the 88's? The next year's worth of newhires?

cni187

Sorry Puddy, I love the C Series as much as you do, but I think the tariff will stick and Delta will have to either renegotiate pricing or cancel the order. I've been reading the ITC report from June.

"In its notices of initiation, Commerce defined the imported merchandise within the scope of these investigations as follows:
{A}ircraft, regardless of seating configuration, that have a standard 100- to 150- seat two-class seating capacity and a minimum 2,900 nautical mile range, as these terms are defined below. ‘‘Standard 100- to 150-seat two-class seating capacity’’ refers to the capacity to accommodate 100 to 150 passengers, when eight passenger seats are configured for a 36-inch pitch, and the remaining passenger seats are configured for a 32-inch pitch. ‘‘Pitch’’ is the distance between a point on one seat and the same point on the seat in front of it. “Standard 100- to 150-seat two-class seating capacity” does not delineate the number of seats actually in a subject aircraft or the actual seating configuration of a subject aircraft. Thus, the number of seats actually in a subject aircraft may be below 100 or exceed 150. A “minimum 2,900 nautical mile range” means: (i) able to transport between 100 and 150 passengers and their luggage on routes equal to or longer than 2,900 nautical miles; or (ii) covered by a U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) type certificate or supplemental type certificate that also covers other aircraft with a minimum 2,900 nautical mile range. The scope includes all aircraft covered by the description above, regardless of whether they enter the United States fully or partially assembled, and regardless of whether, at the time of entry into the United States, they are approved for use by the FAA. The merchandise covered by this investigation is currently classifiable under Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTSUS)"

Boeing's claim might have a little more merit than we think. I don't know the pitch on the seats in the C Series but it does have the range that the 737 has. "I Have a bad feeling about this."

BobZ

Delta not taking them isnt going to kill the product

And the cotton traders at the G.O. im sure have plan B. C. and D. In the hopper to get these in service....in delta livery or not.

forgot to bid

It'll be interesting when the AE drops.

BobZ

We will know soon enough i guess.

Im sure there are airlines with a bunch of worn 737s that wud swap us...

forgot to bid

Well a friend at swa said they've been trying over there to find used 737s and actually is a mixed bag. You can find them but then spend a fortune getting them airworthy because the maintenance used parts that were not FAA approved.

Supposedly we are about to jump on the used market but we will see how that goes.

Maybe get some more 767s with a which way is Mecca pointer.

Hopefully they don't take the C Series SIM down and replace it with a non French jet. I like calling that new SIM section the French Annex with the 350 and 320 Sims there.

BobZ

Those 18 used 777s are still coming im sure.

Idk wat anyone else paid for the c100s....but seems we got them cheap enough to be potential trading cards?

cni187

"In this investigation, the Commission has before
it just such a sale, the Bombardier sale to Delta. The
confirmed pricing and imminent imports from the sale require
no speculation on the Commission's part. Beyond that, it
has compelling information in the record regarding United's
sales campaign, where direct competition between the CS-100
and the 737^^700 caused Boeing to have to drop prices
significantly below any prior levels."

The transcript from the hearing is funny as well. No one wants your old technology POS airplane and Boeing knows it.

https://www.usitc.gov/investigations...reliminary.htm