C Series Info
08-02-2019, 08:12 AM
#3711
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
The thing with GTF engines is they burn significantly more fuel in the climb, so the 321 CEO will actually beat the NEO on short routes.
It doesn't make sense to have any RJs on routes beyond 1.5 hrs of flying, as the A220 will beat it on CASM for any number of passengers.
It doesn't make sense to have any RJs on routes beyond 1.5 hrs of flying, as the A220 will beat it on CASM for any number of passengers.
I think delta and cseries fans love to talk about the range and fuel efficiency because it's there, but Delta was about to acquire E190s for the job. That is until the CS1 price drop and/or someone at Embraer really personally ****ed off Ed as is rumored.
I think the mission for it is still to upgauge and control of a large portion of the product and fuel efficiency is a side benefit... unless gtf engines keep being a problem.
If fuel efficiency was the mission we would dump A221s for 223s but we just ordered more 221s.
So i bet, and it's my bet, the A220 gets used in ways that make sense, but also in ways that make no sense at all unless you think of it as a jumbo RJ market replacement.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 08-02-2019 at 08:28 AM.
08-02-2019, 08:28 AM
#3712
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
But what if the market is only 80 seats and it's a 109 seater? Could a 76 seater be more profitable?
I think delta and cseries fans love to talk about the range and fuel efficiency because it's there, but Delta was about to acquire E190s for the job. That is until the CS1 price drop and/or someone at Embraer really personally ****ed off Ed as is rumored.
I think the mission for it is still to upgauge and control of a large portion of the product. I bet, and it's my bet, the A220 gets used in ways that make sense and no sense at all unless you think of it as a jumbo RJ market replacement.
I think delta and cseries fans love to talk about the range and fuel efficiency because it's there, but Delta was about to acquire E190s for the job. That is until the CS1 price drop and/or someone at Embraer really personally ****ed off Ed as is rumored.
I think the mission for it is still to upgauge and control of a large portion of the product. I bet, and it's my bet, the A220 gets used in ways that make sense and no sense at all unless you think of it as a jumbo RJ market replacement.
The note due on the 717 for Southwest is something like ~$17 million per plane, there is no way they are going to pay that. We know from the dumping lawsuit Delta is paying ~$20 million for a brand new A220 that is better in every single way.
Last edited by Mesabah; 08-02-2019 at 08:51 AM.
08-02-2019, 09:05 AM
#3713
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 644
But what if the market is only 80 seats and it's a 109 seater? Could a 76 seater be more profitable?
I think delta and cseries fans love to talk about the range and fuel efficiency because it's there, but Delta was about to acquire E190s for the job. That is until the CS1 price drop and/or someone at Embraer really personally ****ed off Ed as is rumored.
I think the mission for it is still to upgauge and control of a large portion of the product and fuel efficiency is a side benefit... unless gtf engines keep being a problem.
If fuel efficiency was the mission we would dump A221s for 223s but we just ordered more 221s.
So i bet, and it's my bet, the A220 gets used in ways that make sense, but also in ways that make no sense at all unless you think of it as a jumbo RJ market replacement.
I think delta and cseries fans love to talk about the range and fuel efficiency because it's there, but Delta was about to acquire E190s for the job. That is until the CS1 price drop and/or someone at Embraer really personally ****ed off Ed as is rumored.
I think the mission for it is still to upgauge and control of a large portion of the product and fuel efficiency is a side benefit... unless gtf engines keep being a problem.
If fuel efficiency was the mission we would dump A221s for 223s but we just ordered more 221s.
So i bet, and it's my bet, the A220 gets used in ways that make sense, but also in ways that make no sense at all unless you think of it as a jumbo RJ market replacement.
08-02-2019, 09:09 AM
#3714
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
But what if the market is only 80 seats and it's a 109 seater? Could a 76 seater be more profitable?
I think delta and cseries fans love to talk about the range and fuel efficiency because it's there, but Delta was about to acquire E190s for the job. That is until the CS1 price drop and/or someone at Embraer really personally ****ed off Ed as is rumored.
I think the mission for it is still to upgauge and control of a large portion of the product and fuel efficiency is a side benefit... unless gtf engines keep being a problem.
If fuel efficiency was the mission we would dump A221s for 223s but we just ordered more 221s.
So i bet, and it's my bet, the A220 gets used in ways that make sense, but also in ways that make no sense at all unless you think of it as a jumbo RJ market replacement.
I think delta and cseries fans love to talk about the range and fuel efficiency because it's there, but Delta was about to acquire E190s for the job. That is until the CS1 price drop and/or someone at Embraer really personally ****ed off Ed as is rumored.
I think the mission for it is still to upgauge and control of a large portion of the product and fuel efficiency is a side benefit... unless gtf engines keep being a problem.
If fuel efficiency was the mission we would dump A221s for 223s but we just ordered more 221s.
So i bet, and it's my bet, the A220 gets used in ways that make sense, but also in ways that make no sense at all unless you think of it as a jumbo RJ market replacement.
08-02-2019, 11:27 AM
#3716
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Under the agreement, Delta has the option to purchase at FMV over the next 4 years, but Boeing is likely to continue to lease the aircraft at FMV, (they did this for Hawaiian in 2017, $110,000/mo to $130,000/mo). However, this is still significantly more expensive than a new A220. Under the Trump tax plan, new equipment depreciation is a 100% write-off.
08-02-2019, 11:45 AM
#3717
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
08-02-2019, 11:56 AM
#3718
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
You misread my post, the option to purchase was for AirTran(Southwest).
Under the agreement, Delta has the option to purchase at FMV over the next 4 years, but Boeing is likely to continue to lease the aircraft at FMV, (they did this for Hawaiian in 2017, $110,000/mo to $130,000/mo). However, this is still significantly more expensive than a new A220. Under the Trump tax plan, new equipment depreciation is a 100% write-off.
Under the agreement, Delta has the option to purchase at FMV over the next 4 years, but Boeing is likely to continue to lease the aircraft at FMV, (they did this for Hawaiian in 2017, $110,000/mo to $130,000/mo). However, this is still significantly more expensive than a new A220. Under the Trump tax plan, new equipment depreciation is a 100% write-off.
08-02-2019, 11:59 AM
#3719
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 644
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_deliveries
08-02-2019, 12:15 PM
#3720
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
The A220 is discounted an additional 20% off due to the tax write off. Then, there is the reduced maintenance cost of a new aircraft/MRO, the significantly less fuel burn, and the economy of scale with the -300. There is also the additional revenue opportunity because the A221 is a far more capable aircraft.
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